Istanbul's blue tile paradise • Hacker News Board

Re: Istanbul's blue tile paradise

#91

Post by erenyeager » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 3:33 PM UTC

mrtksn wrote: post #85

erenyeager wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an insidious implicit assertion that because the current mayor is a “good” secular Turk and the “bad” Islamists are protesting, I even note you did not describe these people as turks… this is a typical contrast for Turkey, a division of white and black turks, going back to the time when Turkey was more oppressive towards religious practice for the sake of “secularism”… This style of bowing down to some altar…

You are reading too much into it, there is nothing Islamic about an old fez hat factory. There is no such thing as hat factory values. You are just repeating the overused “ white Turks” idiom which no longer has any credibility since if fell off grace after 20 years of absolute Islamist rule - there is no longer a white Turk establishment. Besides, I’m not Turkish born, I’m an immigrant I cannot be a white Turk. It’s…

As for the Fez, it certainly is symbolic of ottoman times, and was famously outlawed by Ataturk in favor of brim caps, in what is called the Hat Revolution [1]. This was part of an assault on older values and also had anti religious elements.

Next, your characterization of Erdogan’s government as 20 years of absolute Islamist rule is a very loose definition. I do not think you can liken all of his rule as absolute and after all Turkey is still a democracy yet. Also he is not “Islamist” except in a loose terminology, as he did not change Turkey’s government system and overturn in favor of Sharia.

You also likened the protesters to an “old api” that interferes with new development… how is one to interpret that except you see the protesters and their values as an old impediment to progress, one which needs to be removed or “updated”? It’s not so long ago there were protests for Taksim square for Gezi park.

1: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hat_Revolution

Re: Istanbul's blue tile paradise

#92

Post by adfgionionio » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 4:35 PM UTC

JKolios wrote: post #90

adfgionionio wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think this is an accurate summary of your opinion on this matter? >What exactly is "false" or "fake news" about the parent comment? All three sentences...to me. The...museum...was also widely criticized. Lying by omission is still lying. Context matters.

That is not even a good example of lying by omission. You directly altered the facts as I presented them by joining sentence fragments. In this case, the grandparent comment is replying to an article that mentions the Hagia Sophia in the same breath as buildings that were built as mosques and have gone through their entire lifetimes as mosques. The comment does not have to restate the article point by point. If anyon…

>That is...a good example of lying by omission. You directly...presented...this case...point by point.

Thank you!

What the article's author wrote is fine. The Hagia Sophia was a mosque for about five hundred years. It is a mosque today. The last time it was a church is the 15th century. It is perfectly fine to mention a famous mosque in an article about mosques without getting into its (literally) ancient history.

pirate787, on the other hand, deliberately hid its long history as a mosque in service of proving a point.

Re: Istanbul's blue tile paradise

#93

Post by mrtksn » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 4:42 PM UTC

erenyeager wrote: post #91

mrtksn wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are reading too much into it, there is nothing Islamic about an old fez hat factory. There is no such thing as hat factory values. You are just repeating the overused “ white Turks” idiom which no longer has any credibility since if fell off grace after 20 years of absolute Islamist rule - there is no longer a white Turk establishment. Besides, I’m not Turkish born, I’m an immigrant I cannot be a white Turk. It’s…

As for the Fez, it certainly is symbolic of ottoman times, and was famously outlawed by Ataturk in favor of brim caps, in what is called the Hat Revolution [1]. This was part of an assault on older values and also had anti religious elements. Next, your characterization of Erdogan’s government as 20 years of absolute Islamist rule is a very loose definition. I do not think you can liken all of his rule as absolute an…

I like how you make up stuff on the fly but the protest itself wasn't about "disrespecting the fez" but about holding an art exception there. As I said, the place was used as a food market and has nothing to do with fez production anymore. Apparently there were sculptures of goats and the islamists decided that those are knights and got offended. The less unhinged ones said that this is unacceptable because the place is close the the old town, the more unhinged ones acted as the old factory was a religious site and the invaders desacralised it through putting knight sculptures in it. No one brought up any claims about fez being sacred or religions or anything like that, simply there are bunch of Islamist in Turkey who act as if any writing in Arabic or any artefact from the Ottoman era is sacred. A few yers back they attacked an exhibition in an old mansion. The mansion in question has nothing to do with Islam, it's simply a large house that used to belong to a guy from the royalty but at the end of the list for the throne who himself was into music and painting and has artworks on exhibition in other museums.

No one is obligated to please islamist, if they don't like the exhibition they should simply skip it.

Re: Istanbul's blue tile paradise

#94

Post by JKolios » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 4:47 PM UTC

adfgionionio wrote: post #92

JKolios wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not even a good example of lying by omission. You directly altered the facts as I presented them by joining sentence fragments. In this case, the grandparent comment is replying to an article that mentions the Hagia Sophia in the same breath as buildings that were built as mosques and have gone through their entire lifetimes as mosques. The comment does not have to restate the article point by point. If anyon…

>That is...a good example of lying by omission. You directly...presented...this case...point by point. Thank you! What the article's author wrote is fine. The Hagia Sophia was a mosque for about five hundred years. It is a mosque today. The last time it was a church is the 15th century . It is perfectly fine to mention a famous mosque in an article about mosques without getting into its (literally) ancient history. p…

And it's also perfectly fine to point out the rest of the building's entirely true and factual history, without having to accept snide remarks like "byzantine fake news".

Re: Istanbul's blue tile paradise

#95

Post by dizhn » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 5:19 PM UTC

ycombinete wrote: post #64

earino wrote: post #4

I was in Istanbul recently, and what surprised me was the absolute depth of the cities attractions. I stayed in the Kadıköy and Sultanahmet districts, and it was so incredible to walk through a society which had been Monkey Patched through millennia. The runtime behavior of the objects, streets, buildings and the city had been adapted time and time again. Roman temples becoming Churches becoming Mosques becoming Muse…

It’s truly beautiful. After many visits though, the rundown nature of the history started to distress me. See the Hagia Sophia, which appears to have been left to dilapidate since it was turned into a mosque all those centuries ago. A conversion process which appears to have amounted to plastering over the stunning mosaics, and drilling some Arabic script plaques into the walls. Some of which were exposed while it wa…

> Topkapi and Dolmabace palaces are largely empty stone buildings with the trees in the yards being the most fascinating things.

Either you were not actually allowed to go in or things have changed a lot since the last time I visited those places.

Dolmabahçe is real "palace" palace. There are a lot of rooms with really extravagant furnishings, carpets, mirrors etc as well as lots of original art on the walls. Topkapı is more like a museum with artifacts from the time displayed behind glass. Still worth a visit. Contrast this to the "palaces" in Seoul where all the buildings are completely empty except for one of them having one large sofa or something. You are not allowed inside any of the buildings. You spend 3 hours walking around the (admittedly beautiful) gardens and ponds.

What I have seen happening though is with every passing year the percentage of the are that are open to tourists is decreasing. It used to be that you could do a relaxed tour of Dolmabahçe with the guide explaining everything in detail. Tours were in groups but people could fall behind and the guide would wait for you. Last time I was there the tour was more like a factory conveyor belt. The frequency of tours had increased dramatically and it took maybe 30 minutes to do the thing in a rush. If I remember correctly Atatürk's room wasn't even included. Guides would keep telling you to hurry up and not to fall back. Plus, photography was forbidden. I belive these changes to be designed for money making purposes.

(I noticed similar things in Cappadocia. The natural open areas where you could visit a few years ago are now cordoned off. There are more venues in venues where you have to pay extra to visit etc.)

I've been meaning to visit Göbekli Tepe but they alread got their hands on it. I don't know that it would be a worthwhile trip now.

So. I don't know why you said Dolmabahçe and Topkapı are empty buildings. Maybe they are now but I really do find that hard to believe. Did you visit only the Harem in Dolmabahçe or something. The Harem is basically like a huge dormatory. There's nothing fancy there.

Re: Istanbul's blue tile paradise

#96

Post by dizhn » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 5:20 PM UTC

toyg wrote: post #62

As an Italian, I felt very at home in Istanbul when I visited in 2016; it felt very much like "Rome but with mosques". The locals adore children so much, it felt like my kids were VIPs and us parents just their staff. It's unfortunate that the political situation continues to be bad.

My brother and his family lived in Germany for a few years and they had the same comments about Italy regarding children when they visited Italy. They loved going to Italy for this reason.

Re: Istanbul's blue tile paradise

#97

Post by dizhn » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 5:23 PM UTC

kleton wrote: post #69

nashashmi wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A tidbit info: Today's Hagia Sophia is version three of the original church. The original was made of wood and burned down. The second version was of stone and collapsed in an earthquake. The third version took 20+ years to build. Another tidbit: Hagia Sophia can be translated to english as Saint Sofia. It is pronounced in Turkish as Aya Sofia. Aya is from an arabic word that means "sign" like sign of god (similar to…

Ayasofya seems more likely to be a Turkish transliteration of Hagia Sofia, given it is pronounced exactly the same.

Probably not since a lot of churches start with the name Aya in Turkish because they are named after saints. (Like this one: https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aya_%C4%B0rini)

Re: Istanbul's blue tile paradise

#98

Post by dizhn » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 5:27 PM UTC

Qahlel wrote: post #10

I recently visited Istanbul as well. Too my surprise, I ate the best burger I had in my lifetime. It was a smash burger joint in Emirgan district. Forgot the name. but remember finding it on google maps. Give it a try if you are passing by.

A good burger place in Turkey? Best in your life? Please do try to remember the name. I'm gonna be honest with you, I don't think there's a burger place that's that good but i'd love to be wrong about it.

Re: Istanbul's blue tile paradise

#99

Post by dizhn » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 5:29 PM UTC

objektif wrote: post #18

fsniper wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Istanbul you can possibly find best examples of many if not all of international cousines. It is a city for the all types of foodies.

I would definitely disagree with this. Apart from Turkish food you will probably only find good American, French and Italian ( may be few more) food in Turkiye. But the good news is you really do not need anything other that Turkish food because it is just amazing.

You're being generous. Where's good French food in Turkey? Even Turkish food is getting worse every day.

Re: Istanbul's blue tile paradise

#100

Post by dizhn » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 5:34 PM UTC

t43562 wrote: post #80

I spent quite a lot of time in Istanbul - mostly in suburbs far from the tourist bits. I have certainly not seen it all - probably a more tourist with more dedication has seen more in less time. I do like living there. It is always nice to have a strong currency in a place with a more variable one so it's not really fair but it has a kind of living which is a balance to my own. As someone said already, kids are treat…

A traditional simit would not be eaten with something inside either. That was like the breakfast of commuters for many many years. Only in the 90s the vendors starting offering triangle shaped melted cheese products. The Simit Sarayı like places are a very recent invention. By the way, I think the reason pastane simit's aren't as good is that, simit really needs to be made in a traditional stone oven and I belive the temperatures are different to what the pastry shop would have. By the way what gives it the distinct flavor (in addition to sesame seeds) is grape molasses.