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Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

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Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#161

Post by lolinder »

dylan604 wrote: post #149
lolinder wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Netflix doesn't have a special agreement with card issuers. Like most businesses today, Netflix uses issuer tokens instead of saving your credit card information [0]. This is a good thing —aside from reducing accidental interruptions (not a big deal for you and Netflix, but a huge deal for you and your power company), it's much more secure. Netflix should make it easy to cancel your subscription, but using an issuer…

So the reps on the phone that I spoke to lied to me? After talking with Netflix, I then called my bank, and they acknowledged this service exists. What you're on about acting like I don't know what I'm talking about is absolute nonsense.

I'm suggesting that the reps on the phone and your bank were talking about issuer tokens. Source [0].

Besides, regardless of the means by which card updates are handled, it isn't fraud. You authorized Netflix to charge an account, not a particular physical card. If you want to revoke that authorization, you need to revoke the authorization, not get mad at them when they work with Visa to streamline the process of charging the authorized account.

We absolutely do need to improve transparency and require companies like this to make canceling easy, but hyperbole but like yours isn't helping us get there—it makes those of us fighting bad behavior seem irrational and uninformed.

[0] https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20181018005247/en/Vis...

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#162

Post by bityard »

> The Internet & Television Association, which counts Disney, Paramount, and Warner Bros. Discovery as members, said in its public comment that the proposed reg is so vague, it would lead marketers to be excessive in their disclosures, leaving consumers "inundated" and "confused."

I have a rule and that is, anytime somebody pushes back on something with the rationale, "doing X will confuse our users," it is ALWAYS because they have some ulterior motive that has nothing to do with the users at all. (And furthermore shows how little they think of their users's general intelligence.)

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#163

Post by Justsignedup »

ryaneager wrote: post #104
Luctct wrote: post #76

The issue is so simple. The companies claim that it would impose heavy costs on them. Well. So it either costs the companies or it costs the consumer. But the consumer is exercising their free choice while the companies are ignoring said choice and forcing them to pay for something they don't want. That's textbook extortion. Easy solution: impose crippling fines or maybe a little prison sentence here and there for ex…

A company be responsible for their actions? Where in heaven did you get such a dastardly idea?

The solution to like 90% of all problems: The CEO is legally responsible for every illegal action taken by the company. This is also true for all managers down to the department that caused the illegal action.

That's it. Nothing else. You'll see a massive amount of bad behavior from companies instantly stop. When your neck is on the line, you won't do it. Or you'll quit.

However given history, this will never occur. Unfortunately thats now how we think of commerce, and so companies can try to act as they please with socialized risk and all gain.

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#164

Post by synetic »

andsoitis wrote: post #157
synetic wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct on the pedantic point of whether or not it is “extortion” under existing laws. Laws can be changed and definitions changed. Or use a different term. The essence of the point is clear. Why nitpick on whether or not “extortion” is the correct word?

> You are correct on the pedantic point of whether or not it is “extortion” under existing laws. Extortion seems like hyperbole to me. Canceling on Disney+, Netflix, etc. is extremely easy. In fact I cancelled my D+ subscription juts the other day and even though they prompted me whether I’m sure I want to cancel, never did I feel they were trying to trick me with dark UX patterns or making it overly difficult. So on…

The post you responded to was about situations in which companies make it hard to cancel. Clearly the person was expressing frustration that for many companies signing up is easy and canceling is hard. They want this situation to be rectified.

No one cares that you had an easy time cancelling a service. You telling us that cancelling D+ was easy is only meaningful if you think this is the case in all situations for all companies and you argue that this is so. As it stand it’s a pointless anecdote.

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#165

Post by techsupporter »

lolinder wrote: post #141
dylan604 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a new card issued, and I intentionally did not go online to update with them or any other website expecting to receive email notifications from any and all sites that needed me to update my payment method. Netflix did not. It took me calling them to find out, but they have an agreement with card issuers where they can find out that you have been issued a new card and automatically be granted authorization to st…

Netflix doesn't have a special agreement with card issuers. Like most businesses today, Netflix uses issuer tokens instead of saving your credit card information [0]. This is a good thing —aside from reducing accidental interruptions (not a big deal for you and Netflix, but a huge deal for you and your power company), it's much more secure. Netflix should make it easy to cancel your subscription, but using an issuer…

While that might not be what Netflix is doing, the card networks do have a process to tell recurring billing merchants about new card information:

https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/download/merchants/visa-accoun...

https://www.creditcards.com/education/recurring-charges-upda...

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#166

Post by photonbeam »

lolinder wrote: post #141
dylan604 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a new card issued, and I intentionally did not go online to update with them or any other website expecting to receive email notifications from any and all sites that needed me to update my payment method. Netflix did not. It took me calling them to find out, but they have an agreement with card issuers where they can find out that you have been issued a new card and automatically be granted authorization to st…

Netflix doesn't have a special agreement with card issuers. Like most businesses today, Netflix uses issuer tokens instead of saving your credit card information [0]. This is a good thing —aside from reducing accidental interruptions (not a big deal for you and Netflix, but a huge deal for you and your power company), it's much more secure. Netflix should make it easy to cancel your subscription, but using an issuer…

Fraud is in the eye of the beholder

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#167

Post by lolinder »

techsupporter wrote: post #165
lolinder wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Netflix doesn't have a special agreement with card issuers. Like most businesses today, Netflix uses issuer tokens instead of saving your credit card information [0]. This is a good thing —aside from reducing accidental interruptions (not a big deal for you and Netflix, but a huge deal for you and your power company), it's much more secure. Netflix should make it easy to cancel your subscription, but using an issuer…

While that might not be what Netflix is doing, the card networks do have a process to tell recurring billing merchants about new card information: https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/download/merchants/visa-accoun... https://www.creditcards.com/education/recurring-charges-upda...

Yes, I updated my comment a few seconds ago to include my source for Netflix's specific implementation.

And regardless of the mechanism for the credit card updates, it's not fraud. Customers, Visa, banks, and merchants all benefit from removing the arbitrary hassle of keeping track of expiration dates and stolen card numbers.

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#168

Post by lolinder »

photonbeam wrote: post #166
lolinder wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Netflix doesn't have a special agreement with card issuers. Like most businesses today, Netflix uses issuer tokens instead of saving your credit card information [0]. This is a good thing —aside from reducing accidental interruptions (not a big deal for you and Netflix, but a huge deal for you and your power company), it's much more secure. Netflix should make it easy to cancel your subscription, but using an issuer…

Fraud is in the eye of the beholder

Um, no, fraud is a crime that carries with it fines and prison sentences. We try to have such things be very well defined and as objective as humanly possible.

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#170

Post by tuxychandru »

CuriouslyC wrote: post #127
gwbas1c wrote: post #125

Why doesn't my credit card statement list subscriptions separately? How come I can't cancel through my credit card? It's great that the FTC is cracking down on this; but it seems like the credit card companies also should have some involvement too in making it easy to see what subscriptions you have, and making it easy to cancel subscriptions in a single location.

Why would a company that gets a cut of whatever you buy with its service want to make it easy for you to stop buying things?

Apple gets a cut of the payments made through them and yet they provide this option to the consumers.

The FTC or the govt can force (?. I'm not a US resident and know nothing of US regulatory bodies' powers) card networks and banks to make this possible. This is exactly how things work in India, as I mentioned in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36709947.

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