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When Work Didn’t Follow You Home

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Re: When Work Didn’t Follow You Home

#71

Post by makeitdouble »

jader201 wrote: post #6

I’ve been working from home 100% for going on 10 years. I’ve had a mix of experiences re: disconnecting from work, and three things that I believe are key: 1. Work out of a separate office, ideally with a door. Don’t go in that room except when you’re working. If you work from a laptop, (mostly) never take it out of that room. Obviously some don’t have this luxury, but if you do and you’re not doing this, I highly su…

These are all valid point if that's your thing. It reminds me of coffee brewing advice where the very first stated goal is "make repeatable brews" and the expert explains a very meticulous protocol they've repeated and perfected for years now。

It's nice and fine if you never get bored of it.

When people bring their laptop in the kitchen or closet, or go to coffee shops, libraries etc. it's often not because they haven't found a perfected routine, but because they don't want to sit/stand in the same exact spot in the same posture 8h a day every weekday for decades.

Point number 2 also has caveats: with a family it can be easier to allow semi-random interruptions a few times a day and work a bit after everyone's asleep than sticking to an ironclad schedule and being absolutely unavailable when your kid's having tea time or needs a quick help.

Re: When Work Didn’t Follow You Home

#72

Post by dotnwat »

athenot wrote: post #23
jader201 wrote: post #6

I’ve been working from home 100% for going on 10 years. I’ve had a mix of experiences re: disconnecting from work, and three things that I believe are key: 1. Work out of a separate office, ideally with a door. Don’t go in that room except when you’re working. If you work from a laptop, (mostly) never take it out of that room. Obviously some don’t have this luxury, but if you do and you’re not doing this, I highly su…

Point 1 is very important, I can confirm with also a decade of doing this. One note I'd like to add is pay attention to your lighting, have a special "work-mode" set of lights that you turn on when you work and then turn off when you are no longer working. I use the same work desk for non work stuff, but I turn off my "office lights" and it's a completely different vibe. Everyone's tastes will be different but as for…

Would be interested to know which lighting products you are specifically using. I've started dipping my toe into the pool of improved lighting, but the number of products out there is quite overwhelming.

Re: When Work Didn’t Follow You Home

#73

Post by bombolo »

NoahECampbell wrote: post #12
mikrl wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds exactly like something an adversarial participant in the SWE market would say to make me burn out and drop out. Keep that forked tongue in your mouth!

I mean if you can't handle working when something breaks, you probably shouldn't be working there in the first place. Work is.....well work.

Being on call is scheduled and paid.

Re: When Work Didn’t Follow You Home

#74

Post by jader201 »

makeitdouble wrote: post #71
jader201 wrote: post #6

I’ve been working from home 100% for going on 10 years. I’ve had a mix of experiences re: disconnecting from work, and three things that I believe are key: 1. Work out of a separate office, ideally with a door. Don’t go in that room except when you’re working. If you work from a laptop, (mostly) never take it out of that room. Obviously some don’t have this luxury, but if you do and you’re not doing this, I highly su…

These are all valid point if that's your thing. It reminds me of coffee brewing advice where the very first stated goal is "make repeatable brews" and the expert explains a very meticulous protocol they've repeated and perfected for years now。 It's nice and fine if you never get bored of it. When people bring their laptop in the kitchen or closet, or go to coffee shops, libraries etc. it's often not because they have…

For sure, a lot of the things you're describing boils down to the flexibility -- as a perk -- you get from working from home.

But I believe it's the flexibility that make it hard for people to mentally disconnect -- it blurs the lines between work and life.

And, to your point, that's totally fine if that's your preference. I think what we're both saying is that the three points I make above are, in a way, sacrificing some flexibility in order to maintain that separation.

For me, I'm completely fine giving up some of that flexibility so that I can maintain the mental separation. But, to me, I have the best of both worlds in that I still have the option of flexibility in cases where I really need it. But I only try to exercise it when I really need it.

Re: When Work Didn’t Follow You Home

#75

Post by mjmsmith »

NoahECampbell wrote: post #10
mjmsmith wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people work hard in the hours that they're paid for, that is not "the bare minimum".

If something breaks and suddenly no customer can use the product and its 5pm and the engineers say "Welp sorry, my shift ended a few minutes ago so I'll fix it tomorrow!", that is in fact the bare minimum. If an engineer does that, they can be expected to not be earning any raises for actually doing what they're supposed to do, which is not to sit at a desk for a few hours a day, but to deliver a product

It's 5pm where? If the answer is "anywhere", then the company needs 24-hour coverage in multiple time zones, so there's always somebody on shift.

You seem to be under the impression that there is no level of effort between "sit at a desk for a few hours a day" and "be on call 24 hours a day". I can't imagine why.

Re: When Work Didn’t Follow You Home

#76

Post by doublerabbit »

donatj wrote: post #55

So as someone who has worked as a developer for 15+ years now, this is an honest question. What kind of things are you getting emails about after hours that can’t wait until tomorrow? I have heard these horror stories for years but never experienced any of it. Everyone who would be sending me email wants to be off work as much as I do. They’re not working after hours so neither am I. Even when I worked for an agency…

Enterprise works different hours.

If I need to relay something important and where email could cause broken communication, I need to work after hours.

East Coast in five hours behind of me. West Coast is eight.

If we have the regulators chasing us upon an urgent thing you need to be have the information ready for the next day.

Unfortunately the whole "don't email after work" can only be applied to roles where staff are all within the reasonable timezone.

Re: When Work Didn’t Follow You Home

#77

Post by doublerabbit »

spacemadness wrote: post #51
policepost wrote: post #30

Don't connect your phone to work. Close your laptop at 5. Walk away. Keep to a standard schedule.

Seeing the amount of people that answer late night chats from people in other timezones upsets me. What upsets me more are the people on vacation answering chats as soon as they’re pinged. That behavior changes work culture and expectations the more it happens. Bad managers love this sort of thing. I learned a long time ago that to keep my sanity I need a wall up between work hours and my personal life.

Its not always that easy. Enterprise just doesn't work that way. Where multiple timezones come in to play you need to be around.

If I need email comms for an important document regarding to something super tight. I can't just wait till tomorrow.

Information can be crucial at times and emails can cause break down in communications.

Spreadsheets need to be spread and PowerPoints need to be pointed.

Work yes, you can step back from, communication you can't just shut off.

Re: When Work Didn’t Follow You Home

#78

Post by donatj »

doublerabbit wrote: post #76
donatj wrote: post #55

So as someone who has worked as a developer for 15+ years now, this is an honest question. What kind of things are you getting emails about after hours that can’t wait until tomorrow? I have heard these horror stories for years but never experienced any of it. Everyone who would be sending me email wants to be off work as much as I do. They’re not working after hours so neither am I. Even when I worked for an agency…

Enterprise works different hours. If I need to relay something important and where email could cause broken communication, I need to work after hours. East Coast in five hours behind of me. West Coast is eight. If we have the regulators chasing us upon an urgent thing you need to be have the information ready for the next day. Unfortunately the whole "don't email after work" can only be applied to roles where staff a…

Huh, so the whole timezone thing might put me at a huge advantage working in the Midwest?

We have people on the east and west coast but I'm at most 2 hours off from them.

Re: When Work Didn’t Follow You Home

#79

Post by AlotOfReading »

donatj wrote: post #55

So as someone who has worked as a developer for 15+ years now, this is an honest question. What kind of things are you getting emails about after hours that can’t wait until tomorrow? I have heard these horror stories for years but never experienced any of it. Everyone who would be sending me email wants to be off work as much as I do. They’re not working after hours so neither am I. Even when I worked for an agency…

I'm someone who occasionally sends an after hours email, but I don't expect them answered or even received until work-hours. They usually result from starting some very long process (e.g. full rebuilds, expensive tests, automated bisections, etc) that can take 30m+ near the end of the day, so I walk away to go cook and clean. I'll check on them and fire off relevant messages before I lose the mental context with sleep.

Re: When Work Didn’t Follow You Home

#80

Post by Cthulhu_ »

spacemadness wrote: post #39
athenot wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Point 1 is very important, I can confirm with also a decade of doing this. One note I'd like to add is pay attention to your lighting, have a special "work-mode" set of lights that you turn on when you work and then turn off when you are no longer working. I use the same work desk for non work stuff, but I turn off my "office lights" and it's a completely different vibe. Everyone's tastes will be different but as for…

Anecdotally, I don’t find point 1 to be necessary at all. Points 2 and 3 are vital, however. As long as I cut work off at the end of the day, I’m fine.

Sure, the important part is you do a clean break from work and work mode, there's many ways to do so.

Me, my work-desk and pc-gaming-desk are one and the same, but I have different keyboards (PC vs Mac) for the one or the other. It's not ideal though, I'd love to have a dedicated office space and time with e.g. an own kitchenette so I don't have to dart in and out of the shared space of the kitchen multiple times a day.

I'd say that's my main issue; my workspace is separate, but everything else isn't. And it disrupts my family members' days as well. I should go to the office more often.

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