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When Work Didn’t Follow You Home

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Re: When Work Didn’t Follow You Home

#31

Post by zerodensity »

NoahECampbell wrote: post #10
mjmsmith wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people work hard in the hours that they're paid for, that is not "the bare minimum".

If something breaks and suddenly no customer can use the product and its 5pm and the engineers say "Welp sorry, my shift ended a few minutes ago so I'll fix it tomorrow!", that is in fact the bare minimum. If an engineer does that, they can be expected to not be earning any raises for actually doing what they're supposed to do, which is not to sit at a desk for a few hours a day, but to deliver a product

It's only the engineers problem if the engineer has signed a contract specifically stating that they have to work overtime in emergencies. If not then it's the company's problem.

Re: When Work Didn’t Follow You Home

#32

Post by kcb »

NoahECampbell wrote: post #10
mjmsmith wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people work hard in the hours that they're paid for, that is not "the bare minimum".

If something breaks and suddenly no customer can use the product and its 5pm and the engineers say "Welp sorry, my shift ended a few minutes ago so I'll fix it tomorrow!", that is in fact the bare minimum. If an engineer does that, they can be expected to not be earning any raises for actually doing what they're supposed to do, which is not to sit at a desk for a few hours a day, but to deliver a product

The solution to this is proper support chains and on call schedules. Not to have every engineer on call 24/7. If your application is so mission critical, just expecting someone will always pick up the phone is irresponsible.

Re: When Work Didn’t Follow You Home

#33

Post by ohthatsnotright »

NoahECampbell wrote: post #10
mjmsmith wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people work hard in the hours that they're paid for, that is not "the bare minimum".

If something breaks and suddenly no customer can use the product and its 5pm and the engineers say "Welp sorry, my shift ended a few minutes ago so I'll fix it tomorrow!", that is in fact the bare minimum. If an engineer does that, they can be expected to not be earning any raises for actually doing what they're supposed to do, which is not to sit at a desk for a few hours a day, but to deliver a product

The company should be hiring staff to ensure continuous coverage, not relying on someone who has worked a normal "shift" to work overtime because the company is too cheap to hire the support and operations staff that it needs.

Re: When Work Didn’t Follow You Home

#35

Post by ricketycricket »

NoahECampbell wrote: post #10
mjmsmith wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people work hard in the hours that they're paid for, that is not "the bare minimum".

If something breaks and suddenly no customer can use the product and its 5pm and the engineers say "Welp sorry, my shift ended a few minutes ago so I'll fix it tomorrow!", that is in fact the bare minimum. If an engineer does that, they can be expected to not be earning any raises for actually doing what they're supposed to do, which is not to sit at a desk for a few hours a day, but to deliver a product

The problem is that you are saying two different things in your replies. On one hand you say that you aren't suggesting that people work for free, and on the other hand you say that people leaving when their shift is over should not be rewarded with raises.

If employees are being paid to stay after 5 or be on call, then their shift isn't over. If they aren't being paid for their time, they absolutely should go home. If the product cannot afford to go down, the company is responsible for keeping paid staff on hand. Expecting people to work beyond the agreed amount and punishing those that don't by removing opportunities for advancement is reproachable. It may be the norm, but it shouldn't be.

Re: When Work Didn’t Follow You Home

#36

Post by riffraff »

jader201 wrote: post #6

I’ve been working from home 100% for going on 10 years. I’ve had a mix of experiences re: disconnecting from work, and three things that I believe are key: 1. Work out of a separate office, ideally with a door. Don’t go in that room except when you’re working. If you work from a laptop, (mostly) never take it out of that room. Obviously some don’t have this luxury, but if you do and you’re not doing this, I highly su…

going 10+ years remote, I second all these!

I would also add

1. disable notifications, if you can't get rid of work-connected devices: perhaps your work computer is your only computer, and you want to watch a movie on it, just configure chat/mail whatever to only work in _pull_ mode rather than _push_. Don't worry, if something is really important it will reach you.

2. enforce time boundaries through routine. E.g. go to the gym at 17:30 every day so logging off means physically detaching yourself. Or pick up your kids, or take the dog for a walk. Make yourself accountable to non-work.

3. corollary to 2: start work when work start, not before. Do not work in pajamas, do not check your email during breakfast. Do your own things, then start working.

I have not been 100% good at doing all of these, but even doing this a bit has had massive positive effects to not doing it.

Re: When Work Didn’t Follow You Home

#37

Post by jader201 »

tra3 wrote: post #27
jader201 wrote: post #6

I’ve been working from home 100% for going on 10 years. I’ve had a mix of experiences re: disconnecting from work, and three things that I believe are key: 1. Work out of a separate office, ideally with a door. Don’t go in that room except when you’re working. If you work from a laptop, (mostly) never take it out of that room. Obviously some don’t have this luxury, but if you do and you’re not doing this, I highly su…

How do you disconnect and shutdown the problem solving part of your brain? I’ve found that writing a log or a daily summary, a core dump, if you will, helps me disengage. But not always.

I feel like the other 3 points above all help with this. That's not to say that I don't log off, and still think about something I'm working on, or wake up thinking about it (this depends on what I'm working on, how much pressure I'm feeling, and how complex/interesting it is).

But honestly, this doesn't feel any different than it always did. Pre-smartphones, I still would sometimes drive home and think about what I was working on on the way home, or "bring work home" with me.

I think the brain thing is (mostly) independent of the WFH/WFO thing -- as long as you're doing the other three things above. Otherwise, the brain thing is compounded.

Re: When Work Didn’t Follow You Home

#39

Post by spacemadness »

athenot wrote: post #23
jader201 wrote: post #6

I’ve been working from home 100% for going on 10 years. I’ve had a mix of experiences re: disconnecting from work, and three things that I believe are key: 1. Work out of a separate office, ideally with a door. Don’t go in that room except when you’re working. If you work from a laptop, (mostly) never take it out of that room. Obviously some don’t have this luxury, but if you do and you’re not doing this, I highly su…

Point 1 is very important, I can confirm with also a decade of doing this. One note I'd like to add is pay attention to your lighting, have a special "work-mode" set of lights that you turn on when you work and then turn off when you are no longer working. I use the same work desk for non work stuff, but I turn off my "office lights" and it's a completely different vibe. Everyone's tastes will be different but as for…

Anecdotally, I don’t find point 1 to be necessary at all. Points 2 and 3 are vital, however. As long as I cut work off at the end of the day, I’m fine.

Re: When Work Didn’t Follow You Home

#40

Post by intrasight »

I finished my masters (wrote thesis) while working full time. That was in 1990. It was pretty hard. Also had a baby at the time.

My father did his bachelor's degree an NYU while working full time. He's told me how hard that was.

My GF got her law degree as a single mom with two young kids at home. She win's for hardest.

I have a separate work phone that stays on my desk unless I'm going to be away from my desk during work hours - then I take it with me.

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