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Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

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Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#31

Post by terinjokes »

ivolimmen wrote: post #28

One of the great perks of living in the Netherlands. We already have this. If you can sign up in 1 minute using the web you must also be able to cancel in one minute using the web (For the Dutch: Wet van Dam). This rule is only for consumers not for businesses. Consumers are very well protected here.

I keep running into Dutch e-commerce sites that advertise prices without fees and VAT, and I haven't figured out who I'm supposed to complain to. Just yesterday, the first indication the prices weren't accurate is when I saw the real total in iDEAL.

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#32

Post by Sharlin »

glimshe wrote: post #8
strangetortoise wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non-USA here (which might affect things): Isn't the point of paying with e.g. a Netflix gift card that they auto-cancel/pause your subscription to Netflix after the gift card runs out of funds? How would that incur a debt?

The subscription is a recurrent commitment that you sign up for through a contract. They cancel it automatically because they don't want to bother collecting the money - it's expensive to do so and will lead to permanent churn. But they can; it's your problem to fix the payment method to cover your monthly/yearly commitment. All they have to do is to keep the service available and put something in the contract to tha…

Does redeeming a service’s own gift card really tie the user to a perpetual rather than fixed-term agreement?

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#33

Post by bobviolier »

terinjokes wrote: post #31
ivolimmen wrote: post #28

One of the great perks of living in the Netherlands. We already have this. If you can sign up in 1 minute using the web you must also be able to cancel in one minute using the web (For the Dutch: Wet van Dam). This rule is only for consumers not for businesses. Consumers are very well protected here.

I keep running into Dutch e-commerce sites that advertise prices without fees and VAT, and I haven't figured out who I'm supposed to complain to. Just yesterday, the first indication the prices weren't accurate is when I saw the real total in iDEAL.

I am from the Netherlands, and I never see prices without VAT on websites. What is an example?

Edit: not saying your lying, just thinking it might be geo related sometimes?

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#34

Post by treffer »

xg15 wrote: post #10
glimshe wrote: post #7

I prefer that the government doesn't go too heavy handed with the rule and try to solve all problems with requirements such as maintaining detailed phone records. We don't want huge costs of compliance making it harder for small players to enter the market. I think the rule of "sign up online, cancel online using a clearly visible option in the account settings", plus the legalese to cover corner cases, would be a hu…

How many interstitials would you allow after the clearly visible option in the account settings?

None. Perhaps one of it triggers some deletes or privacy related changes.

This has actually been the case in Germany (and perhaps even EU) for a while. Mostly because courts have ruled that cancelation must not be harder than signing up.

In Germany they were especially trying to force you to send letters or fax cancellations when you could sign up or upgrade via phone, e-mail or web form. Courts said no to that practice.

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#35

Post by blooalien »

andersa wrote: post #30
xg15 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many interstitials would you allow after the clearly visible option in the account settings?

Exactly one, "are you sure you want to cancel the subscription?" "yes" "no".

^^^ And we have a winner! This is the correct answer.

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#36

Post by hotpotamus »

jkaplowitz wrote: post #4
WeylandYutani wrote: post #3

I have switched to prepaid gift cards instead of giving apps the right to take money from my bank account. No payment information linked to Google- got burned by auto renewal once and never again.

Not paying a debt you legitimately owe doesn’t eliminate the legitimacy of the debt. Most app owners probably won’t take any further action against you because it’s not usually worth the time and money (at least in the US), but they’re entitled to. If they sell your debt to a debt collector, have fun with that. (Tangent: there is usually a certain number of years of inaction after which they can’t go after you for th…

Charging me for a service I've asked to cancel doesn't really feel legitimate either. I've been through this with a gym that wouldn't cancel and then got sent to collections, which honestly just showed me how worthless collections is. So I get a few more spam calls or spam mails - I'm already ignoring those anyway.

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#37

Post by RGBCube »

In Turkey, you can cancel any subscription you have through the governments app called "e-Devlet" which stands for "e-Government". It is an awesome system, a service making it hell to unsubscribe? Just cancel it through e-Devlet and if they don't cancel your subscription, you can sue them.

Though I think it only works for Turkey based companies, sadly.

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#38

Post by chiefalchemist »

b3lvedere wrote: post #23
appleflaxen wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use it all the time, and it is fantastic You get a new credit card number for every service, and can put any limit you want on the card. So my Netflix card is capped at $10 a month My trial signup cards are capped at $2 for their lifespan My gym card is capped at $10 per month, and cancelled when I want to leave. It's just a fantastic service.

I truly get that it is a fantastic service. What i don't understand is that it is essentially a necessary service for consumers, because corporates have the luxury to can and will not care about problems with automatic (over)charging. So therefore i'm all for 1-click canceling subscriptions.

well, it's not only cancel protection, it's a privacy tool. Imagine your credit card # like a SSN common across multiple platforms. Now imagine that SSN being different every time.

Furthermore, if a platform gets cracked that credit card # has a limit with little to no value.

The ease of pulling the plug on one platform is an added bonus.

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#39

Post by nulbyte »

glimshe wrote: post #7

I prefer that the government doesn't go too heavy handed with the rule and try to solve all problems with requirements such as maintaining detailed phone records. We don't want huge costs of compliance making it harder for small players to enter the market. I think the rule of "sign up online, cancel online using a clearly visible option in the account settings", plus the legalese to cover corner cases, would be a hu…

> ...such as maintaining detailed phone records.

Having read the proposed amendments outlined in the notice, I don't see any mention of this. Outside the proposed amendments, the only mention of this is commentary that several state AGs have urged the commission to amend a different rule (the telephone sales rule) to require recording consent when provided by phone. However, this proposed rule making notice is about the negative option rule, and no such requirement is being proposed.

The requirements the FTC are proposal are refreshingly reasonable. Here is a link to the FTC's page on this, which includes links to the full text of the notice as well as a link to a one-pager summary.

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/03/...

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#40

Post by Swenrekcah »

glimshe wrote: post #8
strangetortoise wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non-USA here (which might affect things): Isn't the point of paying with e.g. a Netflix gift card that they auto-cancel/pause your subscription to Netflix after the gift card runs out of funds? How would that incur a debt?

The subscription is a recurrent commitment that you sign up for through a contract. They cancel it automatically because they don't want to bother collecting the money - it's expensive to do so and will lead to permanent churn. But they can; it's your problem to fix the payment method to cover your monthly/yearly commitment. All they have to do is to keep the service available and put something in the contract to tha…

Netflix is not a basic utility. The only thing they have in common are similar billing intervals.

But that’s kind of beside the point. When you sign up for a subscription, they only commitment you have made is for the chosen billing interval.

If it’s a month you’ve committed for a month, if three years then you’ve committed for three years.

But you have not in any way shape or form committed to a single second beyond that.

Most (all?) have auto renewals clauses that are very convenient for both the seller and buyer, but to enforce it when the buyer wants to quit is basically extortion.

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