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Istanbul's blue tile paradise

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Re: Istanbul's blue tile paradise

#81

Post by ax0ar »

mrtksn wrote: post #77
ax0ar wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for your effort to explain yourself in spite of my negative comment, but I disagree with your assertion. Science isn't a Western construct; it's a universal human endeavor, informed by contributions from civilizations worldwide, not just the West. The narrative of "Westernization" in Turkey has often been a guise for imposing cultural and ideological shifts, mostly anti-Islam ones, that many – including mys…

Sure, science is not a western construct but in the context of the final stages of the Ottoman Empire science over religion was considered a western value. This is not really a philosophical discussion, it's a practical implication of the decline of the empire and a political position in an attempt to reduce the islamic influence. This is a timeframe when people were burning observatories so that the "pervert scienti…

The Turkish society in a way got disconnected from the core principles of Islam, and ignorance, along with superstitions that do not belong to the religion have taken the place of those core principles.

I understand that it wasn't working anymore, and I agree that a change was much needed but the way it was dealt with and what was put into its place are things I do not condone. To this day, Turkey's problems stem from that enforced, makeshift and conflicting foundation that are incompatible with the society.

Thank you for the kind exchange of ideas.

Re: Istanbul's blue tile paradise

#82

Post by coverband »

ax0ar wrote: post #75
mrtksn wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a Kemalist. However, after reading your analysis, I have come to my senses and now I am completely open to the notion of "Western values that emerged after WWII and were used as pretext for the invasion of the 3rd world", although they were a significant political topic during the final decades of the Ottoman Empire, which collapsed in WWI(WWI predates WWII by about 30 years). Now that I am enlightened, I can…

Thank you for your effort to explain yourself in spite of my negative comment, but I disagree with your assertion. Science isn't a Western construct; it's a universal human endeavor, informed by contributions from civilizations worldwide, not just the West. The narrative of "Westernization" in Turkey has often been a guise for imposing cultural and ideological shifts, mostly anti-Islam ones, that many – including mys…

> Science belongs to everyone, regardless of culture or religion

You might want to reassess where you stand if you truly believe that. All I see is the decline of the scientific organizations (including universities where people are granted PhDs based on their political connections), the explicit desire to separate girls from boys in schools, spending many times more on ministry of religion vs ministry of education, and pro-government scientists making ridiculous claims like “cellphone use at the time of Noah”[0].

[0] https://amp.odatv4.com/guncel/hz.-nuh-ogluyla-cep-telefonuyl...

Re: Istanbul's blue tile paradise

#83

Post by ax0ar »

coverband wrote: post #82
ax0ar wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for your effort to explain yourself in spite of my negative comment, but I disagree with your assertion. Science isn't a Western construct; it's a universal human endeavor, informed by contributions from civilizations worldwide, not just the West. The narrative of "Westernization" in Turkey has often been a guise for imposing cultural and ideological shifts, mostly anti-Islam ones, that many – including mys…

> Science belongs to everyone, regardless of culture or religion You might want to reassess where you stand if you truly believe that. All I see is the decline of the scientific organizations (including universities where people are granted PhDs based on their political connections), the explicit desire to separate girls from boys in schools, spending many times more on ministry of religion vs ministry of education,…

You're unfortunately mixing up religion with politics. The current government is not the representative of Islam, on the contrary, they are far from it.

Re: Istanbul's blue tile paradise

#84

Post by erenyeager »

mrtksn wrote: post #12

Istanbul is in the same league with London, Paris, Rome and probably nothing else. Not only the endless layers of multi-millennial history, even the current state of the inhabitants is extremely diverse. It's also surprisingly safe. IMHO the city got ruined in so many ways during the Turkish economic boom the last 5 decades and yet you can tell that the city "still got it". In your runtime analogy, the current state…

This is an insidious implicit assertion that because the current mayor is a “good” secular Turk and the “bad” Islamists are protesting, I even note you did not describe these people as turks… this is a typical contrast for Turkey, a division of white and black turks, going back to the time when Turkey was more oppressive towards religious practice for the sake of “secularism”…

This style of bowing down to some altar of laic secularism and appealing to a western audience is quite overdone and out of touch with the modern day west, which mostly accepts freedom to practice religion especially in Anglophone countries.

Luckily with globalization and the internet, more and more these woven narratives are being exposed for their baselessness. It’s clear that Turkey as a whole has continued its choice to vote for its leader Erdogan of the AKP. This is a signal of the fact that most Turks still support this alternate approach to the country, compared to the changes going back to Ataturk which was imposed on the native population.

That is to say, I am always finding curious this group of white Turks and secularists who assume themselves to be above the others and irreverent to their beliefs. Perhaps this arrogance is what continues to be their downfall as they cannot accept sharing power with the other, more religiously oriented Turkey.

Re: Istanbul's blue tile paradise

#85

Post by mrtksn »

erenyeager wrote: post #84
mrtksn wrote: post #12

Istanbul is in the same league with London, Paris, Rome and probably nothing else. Not only the endless layers of multi-millennial history, even the current state of the inhabitants is extremely diverse. It's also surprisingly safe. IMHO the city got ruined in so many ways during the Turkish economic boom the last 5 decades and yet you can tell that the city "still got it". In your runtime analogy, the current state…

This is an insidious implicit assertion that because the current mayor is a “good” secular Turk and the “bad” Islamists are protesting, I even note you did not describe these people as turks… this is a typical contrast for Turkey, a division of white and black turks, going back to the time when Turkey was more oppressive towards religious practice for the sake of “secularism”… This style of bowing down to some altar…

You are reading too much into it, there is nothing Islamic about an old fez hat factory. There is no such thing as hat factory values. You are just repeating the overused “ white Turks” idiom which no longer has any credibility since if fell off grace after 20 years of absolute Islamist rule - there is no longer a white Turk establishment. Besides, I’m not Turkish born, I’m an immigrant I cannot be a white Turk.

It’s true that Erdogan won in Turkey again, but we are talking about Istanbul here and in Istanbul he is no longer the most popular one.

Re: Istanbul's blue tile paradise

#86

Post by fsniper »

OkayPhysicist wrote: post #38
fsniper wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Istanbul you can possibly find best examples of many if not all of international cousines. It is a city for the all types of foodies.

Maybe I'm spoiled coming from California, especially LA, but this is simply not true. You'll find phenomenal, quite possibly best, examples of Turkish (obviously) and a variety of middle eastern fare, and you'll find some stand-out good examples of various European cuisines. There are options for American food, but none I would even classify as "good". There is a notable shortage of Asian cuisine, and what they have…

I may have exaggerated a bit and I haven't been in Istanbul for 5-6 years already. So let's say I stand corrected.

Re: Istanbul's blue tile paradise

#87

Post by fatihpense »

RGBCube wrote: post #61
fatihpense wrote: post #5

A bit tangential, but while choosing a logo idea for Rust Istanbul community, I went with something that resembles blue tile tulip motif. As another commenter noted there are so many objects/animals/historical artifacts to choose from... https://rustistanbul.org/ If you are a Rust developer and planning to visit Istanbul let us know! (We know good kebap/baklava places ;) )

What if we live in Istanbul?

You are welcome! Then, we will be on the side that shows hospitality to guests. You know we can eat stuff too :)

Re: Istanbul's blue tile paradise

#88

Post by adfgionionio »

JKolios wrote: post #45
fathyb wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice use of scare quotes but that's false. It has been a mosque from 1453 until the 1930s. I have to say, I'm seeing this kind of "byzantine fake news" more and more on HN threads related to Islamic history.

What exactly is "false" or "fake news" about the parent comment? All three sentences look entirely factual to me: The Hagia Sophia was indeed a church. The Hagia Sophia was also indeed a museum. The reconversion into a Mosque was also widely criticized.

Do you think this is an accurate summary of your opinion on this matter?

>What exactly is "false" or "fake news" about the parent comment? All three sentences...to me. The...museum...was also widely criticized.

Lying by omission is still lying. Context matters.

Re: Istanbul's blue tile paradise

#89

Post by uwagar »

goodbyesf wrote: post #44
OkayPhysicist wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Good. Considering turkey isn't a western nation... You should read some Turkish history. After the fall of the Ottoman empire, and being divided up amongst various winners of WWI, the modern Turkey led by Ataturk reclaimed their lost territory and established a country based on overtly western principles. The reforms were deep, and sweeping: A new alphabet, to make Turkish more approachable to people used to Latin…

> A new alphabet, to make Turkish more approachable to people used to Latin scripts. If china adopts latin script does that make china a member of the West? Of course not. 'The West' is called that for a reason. It's predominantly western ( the west ) european nations and their genetic colonial descendents ( aka colonies that have predominantly european blood, power ). We could adopt chinese as our official language…

i remember in school Turkey was called the sick man of europe...

btw, its Türkiye not Turkey anymore.

Re: Istanbul's blue tile paradise

#90

Post by JKolios »

adfgionionio wrote: post #88
JKolios wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is "false" or "fake news" about the parent comment? All three sentences look entirely factual to me: The Hagia Sophia was indeed a church. The Hagia Sophia was also indeed a museum. The reconversion into a Mosque was also widely criticized.

Do you think this is an accurate summary of your opinion on this matter? >What exactly is "false" or "fake news" about the parent comment? All three sentences...to me. The...museum...was also widely criticized. Lying by omission is still lying. Context matters.

That is not even a good example of lying by omission. You directly altered the facts as I presented them by joining sentence fragments. In this case, the grandparent comment is replying to an article that mentions the Hagia Sophia in the same breath as buildings that were built as mosques and have gone through their entire lifetimes as mosques. The comment does not have to restate the article point by point. If anyone is guilty of lying by omission it's the article's writer. They've erased most of the building's history.
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