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Istanbul's blue tile paradise

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Re: Istanbul's blue tile paradise

#31

Post by mrtksn »

goodbyesf wrote: post #29
mrtksn wrote: post #12

Istanbul is in the same league with London, Paris, Rome and probably nothing else. Not only the endless layers of multi-millennial history, even the current state of the inhabitants is extremely diverse. It's also surprisingly safe. IMHO the city got ruined in so many ways during the Turkish economic boom the last 5 decades and yet you can tell that the city "still got it". In your runtime analogy, the current state…

> Istanbul is in the same league with London, Paris, Rome London and Paris do not belong on that list. Rome is on another level. Paris and London are a few levels below somewhere. Heck I'd say istanbul is a level above rome since the turks added onto constantinople and added a richness and extra layer that rome never got. Not to mention that the eastern roman empire was far more impressive that than the western roman…

Turkey is not a muslim turkic nation at all, Turkey is an ethnically diverse nation where almost all the population claims to be muslims but they all practice at different levels and the devote muslims are a small minority of the population. The country itself is the legacy of the Ottoman empire which was partly in Europe for centuries, thus was influenced by western values for hundreds of years already. Then Atatürk happened, Turkey was formed as a nation with western ideals.

Also, an old hat factory which was used as a market is not something islamic. The mayor wasn't paddling any western values to islamists, the mayor was elected by the popular vote and he is still very popular. He does what the electorate demands and significant portion of the electorate demands art galleries.

I think you need to update your understanding of Turkey, it's very lacking and almost offensively shallow. Are you taking any red pills by any chance? Anyway, don't form your opinions from James Bond movies.

Re: Istanbul's blue tile paradise

#32

Post by fathyb »

pirate787 wrote: post #6

The Hagia Sophia "mosque" was a Christian orthodox church that dates from Roman times and was a secular museum from the 1930s until 2020. That decision to reclassify as a mosque is widely condemned by historians and others.

Nice use of scare quotes but that's false. It has been a mosque from 1453 until the 1930s.

I have to say, I'm seeing this kind of "byzantine fake news" more and more on HN threads related to Islamic history.

Re: Istanbul's blue tile paradise

#33

Post by OkayPhysicist »

goodbyesf wrote: post #29
mrtksn wrote: post #12

Istanbul is in the same league with London, Paris, Rome and probably nothing else. Not only the endless layers of multi-millennial history, even the current state of the inhabitants is extremely diverse. It's also surprisingly safe. IMHO the city got ruined in so many ways during the Turkish economic boom the last 5 decades and yet you can tell that the city "still got it". In your runtime analogy, the current state…

> Istanbul is in the same league with London, Paris, Rome London and Paris do not belong on that list. Rome is on another level. Paris and London are a few levels below somewhere. Heck I'd say istanbul is a level above rome since the turks added onto constantinople and added a richness and extra layer that rome never got. Not to mention that the eastern roman empire was far more impressive that than the western roman…

> Good. Considering turkey isn't a western nation...

You should read some Turkish history. After the fall of the Ottoman empire, and being divided up amongst various winners of WWI, the modern Turkey led by Ataturk reclaimed their lost territory and established a country based on overtly western principles. The reforms were deep, and sweeping: A new alphabet, to make Turkish more approachable to people used to Latin scripts. Separation of Church (or mosque, more accurately) and State, to the extent that wearing religious garb in public was outlawed. A new calendar (to match the West's). Women's rights (when that was progressive even for the west).

Imagine if George Washington had decided we'd be writing in Cyrillic and banned the display of crucifixes.

There have been growing pains, but dismissing Turkey as "not western" is an extremely politically charged statement.

Re: Istanbul's blue tile paradise

#34

Post by OkayPhysicist »

resolutebat wrote: post #8
pirate787 wrote: post #6

The Hagia Sophia "mosque" was a Christian orthodox church that dates from Roman times and was a secular museum from the 1930s until 2020. That decision to reclassify as a mosque is widely condemned by historians and others.

It was an actual scare quote free mosque from 1453 to 1934, so if anything the secular museum phase was out of character.

It's not a coincidence that the conversion to a museum coincided with Ataturk's sweeping reforms in making a secular state. The reversion is a mark of a return to fundamentalism and a decline into theocracy.

Re: Istanbul's blue tile paradise

#35

Post by throwaway6734 »

goodbyesf wrote: post #29
mrtksn wrote: post #12

Istanbul is in the same league with London, Paris, Rome and probably nothing else. Not only the endless layers of multi-millennial history, even the current state of the inhabitants is extremely diverse. It's also surprisingly safe. IMHO the city got ruined in so many ways during the Turkish economic boom the last 5 decades and yet you can tell that the city "still got it". In your runtime analogy, the current state…

> Istanbul is in the same league with London, Paris, Rome London and Paris do not belong on that list. Rome is on another level. Paris and London are a few levels below somewhere. Heck I'd say istanbul is a level above rome since the turks added onto constantinople and added a richness and extra layer that rome never got. Not to mention that the eastern roman empire was far more impressive that than the western roman…

> Not to mention that the eastern roman empire was far more impressive that than the western roman empire.

What's your argument for this?

Re: Istanbul's blue tile paradise

#36

Post by OkayPhysicist »

ChainOfFools wrote: post #17
pirate787 wrote: post #6

The Hagia Sophia "mosque" was a Christian orthodox church that dates from Roman times and was a secular museum from the 1930s until 2020. That decision to reclassify as a mosque is widely condemned by historians and others.

They will never fully convert back to a mosque, absolutely no way they want the loss of tourism that will result from making probably the most iconic draw for tourism to the city a place that isn't open to the public in all respects. Last time I was there a few years ago I recall there's a small section near one of the lower galleries off to the side that has been reopened for use as a sort-of-mosque but it's the siz…

I've been several times over the last decade, and you've missed the most recent changes: As of my last trip a couple weeks ago it's now pretty heavily leaned into the mosque angle, with you having to take off your shoes to enter just like any other mosque, and they also covered up the stucco depictions of humans inside with large tapestries.

It's still aggressively available to the public, but you're not going to see much of the pre-Ottoman era inside.

Re: Istanbul's blue tile paradise

#37

Post by throwaway6734 »

fathyb wrote: post #32
pirate787 wrote: post #6

The Hagia Sophia "mosque" was a Christian orthodox church that dates from Roman times and was a secular museum from the 1930s until 2020. That decision to reclassify as a mosque is widely condemned by historians and others.

Nice use of scare quotes but that's false. It has been a mosque from 1453 until the 1930s. I have to say, I'm seeing this kind of "byzantine fake news" more and more on HN threads related to Islamic history.

It was the premier eastern orthodox christian church for a 1000 years before that and taken by conquest. Of course some people are still salty about that. It would be like the Jews turning Mecca into a synagogue or st peters basilica being turned into a mosque

Re: Istanbul's blue tile paradise

#38

Post by OkayPhysicist »

fsniper wrote: post #16
Qahlel wrote: post #10

I recently visited Istanbul as well. Too my surprise, I ate the best burger I had in my lifetime. It was a smash burger joint in Emirgan district. Forgot the name. but remember finding it on google maps. Give it a try if you are passing by.

In Istanbul you can possibly find best examples of many if not all of international cousines. It is a city for the all types of foodies.

Maybe I'm spoiled coming from California, especially LA, but this is simply not true. You'll find phenomenal, quite possibly best, examples of Turkish (obviously) and a variety of middle eastern fare, and you'll find some stand-out good examples of various European cuisines. There are options for American food, but none I would even classify as "good". There is a notable shortage of Asian cuisine, and what they have is definitely nowhere near "best examples", and you'd be hard pressed to find anything from South or Central America, or even Mexico.

Re: Istanbul's blue tile paradise

#39

Post by GaggiX »

egello wrote: post #30
m00dy wrote: post #27

Just got back from Istanbul and let me tell you, the city's attractions blew me away! I stayed in Kadıköy and Sultanahmet, and it was mind-blowing to walk around a place that has seen so many changes throughout history. I mean, we're talking Roman temples turned into churches, then mosques, and now some cool museums. They just keep adding new stuff like tiles and carpets, giving the city a whole new vibe each time. A…

Is this a paraphrased copy of the top comment on the page or am I tripping?

It's definitely a paraphrased copy of the top comment.

Re: Istanbul's blue tile paradise

#40

Post by bergie »

throwaway6734 wrote: post #35
goodbyesf wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Istanbul is in the same league with London, Paris, Rome London and Paris do not belong on that list. Rome is on another level. Paris and London are a few levels below somewhere. Heck I'd say istanbul is a level above rome since the turks added onto constantinople and added a richness and extra layer that rome never got. Not to mention that the eastern roman empire was far more impressive that than the western roman…

> Not to mention that the eastern roman empire was far more impressive that than the western roman empire. What's your argument for this?

Running for a thousand years longer might have something to do with it
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