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GPT-4 details leaked?

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Re: GPT-4 details leaked?

#581

Post by flangola7 »

drak0n1c wrote: post #102
flangola7 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LLMs actually have tangible use (granted far from bespoke yet). Crypto mining has no tangible benefit.

Not tangible, but there will always be a theoretical and idealistic appeal for decentralized app/game/protocol hosting and governance. Corporate bodies like OpenAI, Twitter, YouTube, Blizzard Entertainment have made unpopular changes to popular services they own in a centralized fashion. What if LLMs, social media, and MMOs were both open source and hosted and controlled by their users, not just the whims of a single…

Decentralization is a noble goal and one I admire but we've been told it is coming for over a decade and centralized cloud and financial services are more entrenched than ever.

Even if the social winds did miraculously change, LLMs will never be decentralized for the sole reason that once they're good enough to operate a gun and servo motors every government on the planet is going to lock that shit up fast (assuming massive relentless cyber campaigns somehow don't trigger that response first).

Re: GPT-4 details leaked?

#582

Post by mdp2021 »

namaria wrote: post #548
smolder wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they read the first line of your reply and took it as you arguing that it's nearly impossible for an LLM to give output that would get someone killed.

I was agreeing with them. Why assume wilful ignorance? Have we become the new reddit? People just yelling in disagreement? Maybe it's time to log out and delete this password...

No, Namaria, we were just trying to understand what you meant - which for us resulted cryptic.

Re: GPT-4 details leaked?

#583

Post by mdp2021 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #544
mdp2021 wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference, while moving in "interdependent" directions, is in the purpose: obtaining some sufficient information on how things work versus an actual consideration of the nature of things. It is not really (fully the same process), because you could (in theory) "early stop" when you have achieved technically sufficient competence - the description of the optimal process -, before the jump to the understanding. So…

I wanted to address that in the second paragraph, which I ultimately deleted before submitting, because I couldn't phrase it right. But since you brought it up: I'd consider this an effect of specialization. In the process of improving your object-level "how things work" goals, you end up generalizing and stacking increasingly complex theoretical models. Soon enough, you end up with people working high up the stack -…

> an effect of specialization

It is also a specific purpose, a deliberate endeavour. We are in front of a world, we have to digest its phenomena, we try to understand it - it is a primal process, i.e. mental digestion. In some ways it could be argued that the "scientific drive" is anterior to the technical one: first you assess, then you act. Consistently, science started as "natural philosophy".

It is relevant, in the framework of "scientific drive as (development from the natural process of) mental digestion", that terminologically "science" is not just "the realm where false statements start to exist (and are tried to be avoided)" ("discriminate" - ex scindere), but also, before that, an activity of sorting, of "separating" conceptual elements - mental digestion. The "scient" (as a participle of scire, used as "to know") is a "distinguishing" mind.

We not only «desire to solve a puzzle» - it is our nature (as per the above) as minds dealing with a phenomenical world we need to grasp, as part of the activity of "seeing" it, already before action.

«Play[ing]» is a process that both allows to refine knowledge of the world, physically (in the physical play), and to refine the grasping of the world, mentally (in the mental play).

> growing complexity

Or just abstraction, enabled by a refined framework (following which, other areas become primary, topical - in the synthetic effort which is part of the above said process).

Re: GPT-4 details leaked?

#584

Post by TeMPOraL »

mitchdoogle wrote: post #573
TeMPOraL wrote: post #98

> The conspiracy theory that the new GPT-4 quality had been deteriorated might be simply because they are letting the oracle model accept lower probability sequences from the speculative decoding model. In other words: the speculation was likely right, I'll propose a specific mechanism explaining it, but then still insult the people bringing it up and keep gaslighting them.

Calling something a conspiracy theory is not an insult against anybody. It's a theory because it's unproven and it's a conspiracy because people think OpenAI purposely degraded their own service, hence conspiracy theory.

That's a motte-and-bailey defense. Yes, what you say is technically correct with respect to meaning of "conspiracy" and "theory" as individual words. But it's also completely false with respect to what "conspiracy theory" means in actual use - which is to group the subjects (here: people believing GPT-4 quality has been degrading over time, in spite of OpenAI strongly implying otherwise) in the same bucket as flat earthers, vaccine denialists, UFO believers, NWO fearmongers, etc.

Calling the belief "that the new GPT-4 quality had been deteriorated" a "conspiracy theory" goes beyond claiming the belief itself is wrong - it's also claiming that holding this belief implies significantly compromised reasoning skills. That is, it's just a drive-by insult.

Re: GPT-4 details leaked?

#585

Post by DonHopkins »

droopyEyelids wrote: post #519
DonHopkins wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh come on, have some perspective: academia has millions more people to slaughter before they catch up with the cult of Christianity. https://apholt.com/2019/01/30/death-estimates-for-the-crusad... John Shertzer Hittell– Estimates 1,000,000 total dead for the crusades to the East covering the period from 1095 to 1291. “In the two centuries of this warfare one million persons had been slain, but it had not been withou…

You might be stuck in an argumentative mode of thought, it seems like you replied to an interpretation of my comment that left out some salient details.

If you have some salient details about millions of people being slaughtered by academia, then please post them!

Otherwise my point stands that your comparison is ridiculous, because religion has killed millions more people than academia, despite Jesus's teachings and the "Thou Shalt Not Kill" commandment.

Religion has diverged vastly and diabolically further from the teachings of Jesus than academia has from the scientific method. There's no comparison.

You're being extremely anti-intellectual while whitewashing and rationalizing the slaughter of millions of innocent people, misery, carnage, and chronic pestilence, if you think academia is anywhere near as bad a cult as Christianity.

Re: GPT-4 details leaked?

#586

Post by mdp2021 »

visarga wrote: post #349
mensetmanusman wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those steps are both necessary and usually take decades to build understanding.

Next time we get the urge to complain that GPT-n is just applying patterns seen in the training corpus we should remember humans don't do much better. We are just language agents with rich feedback from outside. We can't even write software top-down in one go without running the code.

Incidentally, that opinion is also offensive. Not just some tossed "All X are Y, goodnight", but a loaded one.

If you happen to conjure thoughts and let them roam wildly, well don't. Make an effort. Critical thinking as a conscious intentional effort must have plenty of literature. The "feedforward" output, the hallucination, is not a dish for service.

Re: GPT-4 details leaked?

#587

Post by StackOverlord »

astrange wrote: post #533
ryneandal wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is LLMs are built with Transformer architecture. They're all transformers, attention is an integral part of building worthwhile, contextual answers.

Yeah, but LLMs are more specific, so it's a subset. Also, LLMs use "in-context learning" ie you actually ask it "hey, translate this" and then it has a conversation with you where you can ask to clarify or provide word definitions. Google Translate is more hardcoded; a big problem with it is that it can't explain any of the decisions it's made or show its uncertainty about anything. Of course, neither of these are re…

I favor ChatGPT over Google Translate now. ChatGPT has the added benefit it is focused on providing helpful answers, so if it comes across something almost untranslatable, it will be able to address that and provide an explanation in the style of a footpage note.

Re: GPT-4 details leaked?

#588

Post by StackOverlord »

gdubs wrote: post #416

Recently I was saying how much amazing stuff there is in retro computing. One thing that keeps coming to mind for me recently is just how visionary Thinking Machines Connection Machine supercomputer architecture was with its massive parallelism built in, with neural network applications being a key predicted use case at the time. That was so long ago! Interesting to think about in comparison to the challenges today a…

Related: https://longnow.org/essays/richard-feynman-connection-machin...

Re: GPT-4 details leaked?

#589

Post by gitfan86 »

DonHopkins wrote: post #585
droopyEyelids wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be stuck in an argumentative mode of thought, it seems like you replied to an interpretation of my comment that left out some salient details.

If you have some salient details about millions of people being slaughtered by academia, then please post them! Otherwise my point stands that your comparison is ridiculous, because religion has killed millions more people than academia, despite Jesus's teachings and the "Thou Shalt Not Kill" commandment. Religion has diverged vastly and diabolically further from the teachings of Jesus than academia has from the scie…

He compared it to a cult. Not all cults have killed millions of people. But many cults do stray very far from the original stated reason for the cult existing. For example some cults will treat their members like free labor and claim the goal is to make everyone happy through hard work and lack of worry about money. But then the leader will get a lot of money and start buying nice things for himself.

Buying a nice car with other people's labor isn't as bad as killing millions of people but it is straying very far from the original declared mission.

You seem to believe that murder is the metric that can be used to measure how well an organization is doing as far as following their mission.

Re: GPT-4 details leaked?

#590

Post by JumpCrisscross »

dwallin wrote: post #420
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most benefits from the copyright system are accrued to large corporations Citation fucking needed. Among those who study copyright and inequality, none suggest abandoning it [1][2]. Within the context of machine learning, one of the only pillars buttressing individuals against multi-trillion dollar corporations is copyright [3]. [1] https://journals.library.wustl.edu/lawreview/article/id/5108... [2] https://www.jst…

I never argued that copyright should be abolished, I was responding to a comment that essentially said that anyone who was opposed to copyright is doing so at the behest of large corporations at the expense of individuals, which is a really flawed and one sided way of looking at copyright laws, the first linked article you provided being a great example. For the record, I can’t find a single large corporation pushing…

> I can’t find a single large corporation pushing for the dissolution of copyright

The defendant of every copyright infringement lawsuit.

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