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Resilience requires helping each other out

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41–50 of 92 posts

Re: Resilience requires helping each other out

#41
Just some initial thoughts:

- Lots of examples from the regenerative world, including ideas like plant guilds in permaculture

- What would resource sharing like this look like in Kubernetes? Going beyond resource limits, but a way for pod to signal cpu/mem when it isn't using it, and can reclaim it during bursts

- What does this look like when viewed through Promise Theory? (Promise Theory has insights about voluntary cooperation among autonomous agents, human or AI)

Re: Resilience requires helping each other out

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They tend not to fail when religion is a pillar in the community. The Amish and Mennonites are great examples.

I don't believe this behavior has ever been observed in a regliously and ethnically diverse population. People have to be basically related to one another, sharing a core common belief for it to work.

Hippie communes. No, seriously.

There needs to be some organizing principle for it to work though - some shared belief in a greater good everyone works towards. Similarly, this is how communism could work without bloodshed (some of those hippie communes are close to classical Marxism).

Re: Resilience requires helping each other out

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They tend not to fail when religion is a pillar in the community. The Amish and Mennonites are great examples.

I don't believe this behavior has ever been observed in a regliously and ethnically diverse population. People have to be basically related to one another, sharing a core common belief for it to work.

Plenty of communes have existed at varying scales historically.

Plus, something like Mondragon exists with a large scale. It's less commune and more workers coop at the billion dollar scale, but it's nevertheless a useful reminder that we can scale up non traditional models.

Re: Resilience requires helping each other out

#44
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

on the contrary, everyone of us needs to realize that we are part of a global community and that all of our actions accumulate to have an effect across the world. so instead of saying that this will never work because we are to diverse, instead we need to strive and MAKE IT WORK! put aside our differences, find common ground and build a global cooperative community that includes every human being on this planet.

I believe the reason many people refuse to recognize the evident reality of our interdependence is an implied "all or nothing" simple mindedness that dismisses the required changes as unachievable. We clearly cant be "best buddies" across all 7bln x 7bln pairs sharing the planet at any given time. Nor is it needed. The minimum common ground needed for long term sustainable survival is just that. A minimum. But it has…

right, i am more confident that we will succeed but otherwise i agree. people see the big change they must go through to achieve the end result, not realizing that even small steps will get us there. look at how far we have gotten in the last 50 years. how much poverty has been reduced across the world. we are not there yet, and there are bumps and setbacks, but this is not all or nothing, black or white, but it's a long road, and as long as we are walking it we can reach our goals. maybe not in one generation, but in a few generations if we all make an effort and teach our children to do the same. but even with less effort it is still possible, it just may take a few centuries longer.

Re: Resilience requires helping each other out

#46
post #36

This is why I tell everyone who'll listen that if you want to prep for a disaster, step 0 is to hold a block party. Most people don't even know their neighbor's names!

There was a HN thread about this within the past three months. Sit outside regularly at the front yard and just start waving hi to everyone.

Re: Resilience requires helping each other out

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social norms are really good at this stuff as long as people do actually spurn people who violate them. There’s been a recent spate of celebrities in the US who’ve “succeeded” by staying arguably within the bounds of legality while well outside the bounds of the norms we ought to want. Too much of those conversations end up about the legality and not about the much more powerful and more precarious norms being attack…

Social contracts are indeed the prime example. But its not clear how we can use them effectively going forward as everything seems to be working against them. E.g., rapid social evolution, urbanization and migration creates strangers that only adhere to minimal common norms. There is also the ambiguous role of social media. While frequently accused of inducing toxicity and polarization, this may actually promote a ne…

The solution is to become wise. People want to just follow rules on how what to do, but in interactions with other people there is no such thing. Learn about people, learn to read people, signs of who is not to be trusted, why they are saying what they are saying. Don't fall in to any web somebody has woven, no matter how much you yearn to let go of control. The last is the most important. Most people's highest desire is to shut off their mind and let somebody else take the reins, come what come will. Then they're scammed, exploited, enslaved, or sent off to die in a war.

In the end, there's nothing new under the sun.

Re: Resilience requires helping each other out

#48

Before we reliably had money, we had barter and "mutual aid." Now, some people think you just pay for stuff with money and if someone is "nice" to you, you don't "owe" them anything. A lot of people no longer seem to understand the implicit social contract behind such interactions and it can go bad places. From religion to community development work to politics, there have been myriad attempts to educate people that…

> Before we reliably had money [...] Now [...] A lot of people no longer seem to understand the implicit social contract behind

Nah. Being a jerk isn't a modern invention. By every objective measure, misbehavior/criminality/violence et. al. have been getting inexorably better over the past centuries.

If you have to make a pronouncement like this, it's more "In a world of excess and luxury, being pissed off about minor bullshit is an engaging hobby".

The modern world didn't invent selfish jerks. Maybe it invented Karens.

Re: Resilience requires helping each other out

#49

If only positive reciprocity wasn't so easily gamed way too frequently. Its basically given that somebody will use your kidness/help for its own benefit leaving your with nothing in return. There is number of people I personally know that just let it happen over and over again... Its almost like some good deeds are invisible to some people.

They are in the evil Yin-Yang system of victim/perpetrator that so many people are participating in. The perpetrator feels great about taking advantage of an idiot, and the victim takes pleasure in being the martyr. It's sickening. But it's also stupid and low on a spiritual level. Christianity tried to get rid of this garbage by saying: "We killed the son of God, now the ultimate and last sacrifice is already made". My advice is to steer clear of these people. They will never take any advice to stop being taken advantage of, but will enjoy tremendously complaining to you how bad they've been treated.

Re: Resilience requires helping each other out

#50

Before we reliably had money, we had barter and "mutual aid." Now, some people think you just pay for stuff with money and if someone is "nice" to you, you don't "owe" them anything. A lot of people no longer seem to understand the implicit social contract behind such interactions and it can go bad places. From religion to community development work to politics, there have been myriad attempts to educate people that…

It's a complex topic, but it's important to recognize that, to a large extent,

> you just pay for stuff with money and if someone is "nice" to you, you don't "owe" them anything

is kind of the whole point of money. More specifically, it allows you to trade with random strangers, without having to first develop and afterwards maintain social relationships with them. It's what, for better or worse, let humanity form groups larger than a small village.

> You may be able to get away with claiming 1.75 of it and giving them 1.25 of it for a long damn time but if it becomes clear to them that all interactions between you and them benefit you at their expense, well, count on them eventually not being cool with that.

This is always the case - but it takes longer for this process to settle, the larger the group is. Money is what allows you to even have this issue in the first place, by allowing societies to reach this size. And laws exist to compensate for our social intuitions and behaviors failing at this scale.

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