Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

At Japan’s first winery, the country’s oldest grape lives on

japantimes.co.jp

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 95 posts

Re: At Japan’s first winery, the country’s oldest grape lives on

#41

Post by bobthepanda »

bamboozled wrote: post #28
bobthepanda wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also helps that Japan generally lacks the flat land that makes ultra mechanized farming impossible, and high food import tariffs. That being said, I wouldn’t say they’re accepting of it; Japan’s rapid depopulation is overwhelmingly happening in the countryside, because it is all toil for less pay.

It doesn't really lack large swathes of flat land. Sure it might not look like Texas, but if you're telling me there isn't enough room to be running combine harvesters over large areas of land you're wrong. Anyhow, the land influences culture, so my point still stands, if the reason for their attitude to farming practices is because there is mountains, it doesn't make much difference, people don't know any different…

It’s not exactly ideal to run ultra wide harvesters on narrow terraced fields.

Until the pandemic, the statistics show net population increase in Tokyo, Nagoya, Fukuoka, and Osaka and substantial declines in rural areas. The work’s not any easier, but you get paid more.

I’m not saying any of this is good, but let’s not get into weird exoticism and othering based on some idyllic vision of Japan.

Re: At Japan’s first winery, the country’s oldest grape lives on

#42

Post by rcme »

taeric wrote: post #10
rcme wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Children have horribly underdeveloped palates. Generally novices in anything, food or otherwise, have trouble appreciating the nuances that make something beautiful.

Is it an irony that the very same nuance detection is often used in so many biases and other degenerate judgements? I have loved that my kids find basically everything beautiful. Beetles in the backyard? Amazing! Snakes? Cute! Coyotes? Leave the chickens alone, you adorable canine! Are they underdeveloped? I mean, yeah. I don't disagree with the assertion. I sometimes question the directions that we develop ourselves…

I don't think calling this a degenerate judgement is fair. I too have a child and I too admire the gusto with which she experience the world. But when your child is amazed by a beetle in the backyard, your sense of amazement stems not from the beetle, but from the fact that your child can be amazed by a beetle. You're amazed specifically because your child sees the world in a way that you don't. And so I fully believe that a child believes basic staples taste better than the finest cuisine, but that doesn't make their taste a good proxy for adults.

Re: At Japan’s first winery, the country’s oldest grape lives on

#43

Post by sandworm101 »

hospitalJail wrote: post #4

Japan's obsession with tradition gives me real Europe vibes. The people selling it praise it, the people nearby have pride. I eat it and after all the hype, am disappointed. If I try really really hard, I can trick my brain into thinking its worthwhile. (I did just spend a bunch of money, traveled across the world, I should be able to enjoy this more than something I grow in my garden.. right?) I'd love blind taste t…

>> I eat it and after all the hype, am disappointed.

"Fine" wine has almost nothing to do with taste. It is about culture. It is about history and travel. It is about wealth. It is about demonstrating one's ability and acceptance within a particular society. It is about pretending. The fact that an elite wine only available to a rarified few actually tastes horrible is very much beside the point.

Re: At Japan’s first winery, the country’s oldest grape lives on

#44

Post by asciimike »

f6v wrote: post #3

> Carefully, the chief viticulture engineer of Iwanohara Vineyard, Japan’s oldest operating winery, inspects each of the 5,500 grape vines that make up Iwanohara’s six hectares in Kitagata, Niigata Prefecture. > So far, Wada has found three bugs after two hours of work. The midday sun beats down, and beads of sweat pool on his neck. Iwanohara focuses on using as few pesticides as possible, an approach that means Wada…

Drops of God is fun and educational, as is Bartender (https://mangakakalot.com/read-in2uo158504890455). I also enjoyed Oishinbo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oishinbo), though admittedly the non-food part of the plot gets a bit stale/one-uppey.

Re: At Japan’s first winery, the country’s oldest grape lives on

#45

Post by scandox »

hospitalJail wrote: post #4

Japan's obsession with tradition gives me real Europe vibes. The people selling it praise it, the people nearby have pride. I eat it and after all the hype, am disappointed. If I try really really hard, I can trick my brain into thinking its worthwhile. (I did just spend a bunch of money, traveled across the world, I should be able to enjoy this more than something I grow in my garden.. right?) I'd love blind taste t…

If you can produce a passable wine in your garden I would certainly be impressed.

Re: At Japan’s first winery, the country’s oldest grape lives on

#46

Post by taeric »

rcme wrote: post #42
taeric wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it an irony that the very same nuance detection is often used in so many biases and other degenerate judgements? I have loved that my kids find basically everything beautiful. Beetles in the backyard? Amazing! Snakes? Cute! Coyotes? Leave the chickens alone, you adorable canine! Are they underdeveloped? I mean, yeah. I don't disagree with the assertion. I sometimes question the directions that we develop ourselves…

I don't think calling this a degenerate judgement is fair. I too have a child and I too admire the gusto with which she experience the world. But when your child is amazed by a beetle in the backyard, your sense of amazement stems not from the beetle, but from the fact that your child can be amazed by a beetle. You're amazed specifically because your child sees the world in a way that you don't. And so I fully believ…

Apologies, that isn't the degenerate judgement I was referring to. In that, I meant most other banal prejudices and such. The diversion to children was just exploring easy topics that show many fears/judgements are learned.

Specifically, the beetle and such are ones that I know I somewhat imprinted on them. If I see beetles, I will shuffle them around so that they are safe from whatever work I'm doing. Such that my kids find them cute and like helping them, where they can. We've had other kids over that find them disgusting and can't believe we would touch them.

Does this mean that some things can't taste better than others? I definitely don't think so. But I find a lot of the attempts at making that objective questionable, at best.

Re: At Japan’s first winery, the country’s oldest grape lives on

#47

Post by nitwit005 »

taeric wrote: post #11
hospitalJail wrote: post #4

Japan's obsession with tradition gives me real Europe vibes. The people selling it praise it, the people nearby have pride. I eat it and after all the hype, am disappointed. If I try really really hard, I can trick my brain into thinking its worthwhile. (I did just spend a bunch of money, traveled across the world, I should be able to enjoy this more than something I grow in my garden.. right?) I'd love blind taste t…

I hate to push the idea of experience, but you can try that next time. That is, don't try and take in the taste individually. Look around and experience everything with you and try to imprint some of that into tasting it. Close your eyes and set the idea that it was all a part of it. Then, later, if you can get back to this specific taste, it can help remind you in very physical ways of being there and having that ex…

You seem to be describing a way to lie to yourself about the taste.

Re: At Japan’s first winery, the country’s oldest grape lives on

#48

Post by mason55 »

nitwit005 wrote: post #47
taeric wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to push the idea of experience, but you can try that next time. That is, don't try and take in the taste individually. Look around and experience everything with you and try to imprint some of that into tasting it. Close your eyes and set the idea that it was all a part of it. Then, later, if you can get back to this specific taste, it can help remind you in very physical ways of being there and having that ex…

You seem to be describing a way to lie to yourself about the taste.

The brain isn't a perfect machine - you can't just isolate the chemical reaction that your tastebuds have and say that anything else is lying to yourself about taste.

Breathing through your nose is lying to yourself about the taste too but if you hold your nose while you eat then you won't taste anything.

Re: At Japan’s first winery, the country’s oldest grape lives on

#49

Post by julianeon »

MattGaiser wrote: post #5

I’m curious if handcrafting artisans like this exist in North America/Europe at anywhere near the same scale (and we only see stories from Japan as we view it as something their culture does) or whether this is a uniquely Japanese thing to do. Perhaps we just value it less here in North America. All stories of extremely small batch but precisely crafted products seem to come out of Japan.

"Old vine" wines are pretty close to this, and that's a large niche; walk into any large city's grocery store and you can probably find at least one. Similar idea: old vines, undisturbed land, small batches, artisan production.

Re: At Japan’s first winery, the country’s oldest grape lives on

#50

Post by cycrutchfield »

sandworm101 wrote: post #43
hospitalJail wrote: post #4

Japan's obsession with tradition gives me real Europe vibes. The people selling it praise it, the people nearby have pride. I eat it and after all the hype, am disappointed. If I try really really hard, I can trick my brain into thinking its worthwhile. (I did just spend a bunch of money, traveled across the world, I should be able to enjoy this more than something I grow in my garden.. right?) I'd love blind taste t…

>> I eat it and after all the hype, am disappointed. "Fine" wine has almost nothing to do with taste. It is about culture. It is about history and travel. It is about wealth. It is about demonstrating one's ability and acceptance within a particular society. It is about pretending. The fact that an elite wine only available to a rarified few actually tastes horrible is very much beside the point.

I love it when HN galaxy brains talk about stuff they clearly know nothing about.
Post reply on HN