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At Japan’s first winery, the country’s oldest grape lives on

japantimes.co.jp

21–30 of 95 posts

Re: At Japan’s first winery, the country’s oldest grape lives on

#21

I’m curious if handcrafting artisans like this exist in North America/Europe at anywhere near the same scale (and we only see stories from Japan as we view it as something their culture does) or whether this is a uniquely Japanese thing to do. Perhaps we just value it less here in North America. All stories of extremely small batch but precisely crafted products seem to come out of Japan.

Japanese culture seems to emphasize the experience of "doing" a lot more than the west. This attitude surely stems from Zen Buddhist ideas.

For example, in the west, there is a commonly shared fantasy that automating away work will lead to happiness, having the robots doing it all is Nirvana; However, e all know deep down inside we'd still need something to do, we'd have to create some purpose or some object for ourselves. I bet most people would be outside growing food and playing in the garden with their kids if they didn't have to work. Many people in Japan actually do this, there is a LOT of small scale farming in Japan, they do not really share the same farming practices we do in the west. Step out side Tokyo and this is immediately obvious, almost everyone is growing something. It's much more small scale and often has more human involvement. I think Japan is culturally more suited to accepting the fact that life can be toil and toil is good, it is what there is.

I'm definitely not trying to say Japan is better, or all Japanese people are like this, just there is cultural roots which make some of these practices more suited to life in Japan than it would in other cultures.

Re: At Japan’s first winery, the country’s oldest grape lives on

#22
post #7

I’m curious if handcrafting artisans like this exist in North America/Europe at anywhere near the same scale (and we only see stories from Japan as we view it as something their culture does) or whether this is a uniquely Japanese thing to do. Perhaps we just value it less here in North America. All stories of extremely small batch but precisely crafted products seem to come out of Japan.

> Perhaps we just value it less here in North America. The reason we have less stuff like this in the USA is due to geography. We are a mostly flat country, rather than being mountainous or separated onto different small islands. Because of this, products produced via economies of scale can outcompete higher-quality artisanal products.

> We are a mostly flat country

Eh? The US is the opposite of "mostly flat". And large swaths of the mostly flat part have low population density. The country is also very regional with considerable local diversity in what is produced and available locally.

The US produces a lot of very local artisanal products throughout the country that don't travel very far that are based on local tradition and history. That's been true everywhere I've lived in the US.

Re: At Japan’s first winery, the country’s oldest grape lives on

#23

I’m curious if handcrafting artisans like this exist in North America/Europe at anywhere near the same scale (and we only see stories from Japan as we view it as something their culture does) or whether this is a uniquely Japanese thing to do. Perhaps we just value it less here in North America. All stories of extremely small batch but precisely crafted products seem to come out of Japan.

Japanese culture seems to emphasize the experience of "doing" a lot more than the west. This attitude surely stems from Zen Buddhist ideas. For example, in the west, there is a commonly shared fantasy that automating away work will lead to happiness, having the robots doing it all is Nirvana; However, e all know deep down inside we'd still need something to do, we'd have to create some purpose or some object for ours…

It also helps that Japan generally lacks the flat land that makes ultra mechanized farming impossible, and high food import tariffs.

That being said, I wouldn’t say they’re accepting of it; Japan’s rapid depopulation is overwhelmingly happening in the countryside, because it is all toil for less pay.

Re: At Japan’s first winery, the country’s oldest grape lives on

#24
post #6

Japan's obsession with tradition gives me real Europe vibes. The people selling it praise it, the people nearby have pride. I eat it and after all the hype, am disappointed. If I try really really hard, I can trick my brain into thinking its worthwhile. (I did just spend a bunch of money, traveled across the world, I should be able to enjoy this more than something I grow in my garden.. right?) I'd love blind taste t…

Children have horribly underdeveloped palates. Generally novices in anything, food or otherwise, have trouble appreciating the nuances that make something beautiful.

They have more healthy taste buds do they not? Perhaps they have the best taste of all.

Re: At Japan’s first winery, the country’s oldest grape lives on

#26

Japan's obsession with tradition gives me real Europe vibes. The people selling it praise it, the people nearby have pride. I eat it and after all the hype, am disappointed. If I try really really hard, I can trick my brain into thinking its worthwhile. (I did just spend a bunch of money, traveled across the world, I should be able to enjoy this more than something I grow in my garden.. right?) I'd love blind taste t…

Sounds like you're trying too hard to enjoy it and not just enjoying it.

I traveled in Italy recently and it was fantastic, the food, tradition and the experience was amazing. I wasn't looking for tradition, I just saw tradition, I experienced it and loved it.

Re: At Japan’s first winery, the country’s oldest grape lives on

#27
post #26

Japan's obsession with tradition gives me real Europe vibes. The people selling it praise it, the people nearby have pride. I eat it and after all the hype, am disappointed. If I try really really hard, I can trick my brain into thinking its worthwhile. (I did just spend a bunch of money, traveled across the world, I should be able to enjoy this more than something I grow in my garden.. right?) I'd love blind taste t…

Sounds like you're trying too hard to enjoy it and not just enjoying it. I traveled in Italy recently and it was fantastic, the food, tradition and the experience was amazing. I wasn't looking for tradition, I just saw tradition, I experienced it and loved it.

IMO it is not tradition, but variety that is amazing. A lot of variety comes from maintaining traditions, because otherwise we'd all just converge on the One True Way of doing things.

Re: At Japan’s first winery, the country’s oldest grape lives on

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japanese culture seems to emphasize the experience of "doing" a lot more than the west. This attitude surely stems from Zen Buddhist ideas. For example, in the west, there is a commonly shared fantasy that automating away work will lead to happiness, having the robots doing it all is Nirvana; However, e all know deep down inside we'd still need something to do, we'd have to create some purpose or some object for ours…

It also helps that Japan generally lacks the flat land that makes ultra mechanized farming impossible, and high food import tariffs. That being said, I wouldn’t say they’re accepting of it; Japan’s rapid depopulation is overwhelmingly happening in the countryside, because it is all toil for less pay.

It doesn't really lack large swathes of flat land. Sure it might not look like Texas, but if you're telling me there isn't enough room to be running combine harvesters over large areas of land you're wrong.

Anyhow, the land influences culture, so my point still stands, if the reason for their attitude to farming practices is because there is mountains, it doesn't make much difference, people don't know any different and that's how they have operated for millennia.

Japan’s rapid depopulation is overwhelmingly happening in the countryside, because it is all toil for less pay.

Right, like as if working in Tokyo is no toil for more pay? Sorry but you don't sound very well informed to me. In general, Japanese don't get well at all, I view Japan as much more of a socialist system than people realize.

Japan's aging population problem has nothing to do with whether you live in the countryside and grow your own veggies or not, it has to do with demographics and go visit any major city and you will find a lot of elderly people there too. Of course a small village is going to be more effected than Tokyo with 30+ million people when the population is shrinking. Either way, people from Tokyo eat sushi rice from rural areas.

Re: At Japan’s first winery, the country’s oldest grape lives on

#29
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Children have horribly underdeveloped palates. Generally novices in anything, food or otherwise, have trouble appreciating the nuances that make something beautiful.

If children were in charge, they'd make everything taste like chicken nuggets. Kind of like the Matrix.

Plus, everything would be beige.

Re: At Japan’s first winery, the country’s oldest grape lives on

#30

I’m curious if handcrafting artisans like this exist in North America/Europe at anywhere near the same scale (and we only see stories from Japan as we view it as something their culture does) or whether this is a uniquely Japanese thing to do. Perhaps we just value it less here in North America. All stories of extremely small batch but precisely crafted products seem to come out of Japan.

NA and EU have plenty of local artisanal products. It just doesn't have the some appeal as Japan, which tends to occupy a hallowed spot in the minds of educated/nerdy guys on the internet.
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