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Sarah Silverman is suing OpenAI and Meta for copyright infringement

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Re: Sarah Silverman is suing OpenAI and Meta for copyright infringement

#551

Post by gretch »

ssss11 wrote: post #429
holmesworcester wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's take a second to remember that copyright is the reason ~every child doesn't have access to ~every book ever written. While it might be too disruptive to eliminate copyright overnight, we should remember that our world will be much better and improve much faster to the extent we can reduce copyright's impact. And we should cheer it on when it happens. A majority of the world's population in 2023 has a smartphone…

So why do we cheer on megacorps and not mom and pop pirates?

Who is cheering for 1 and not the other?

Megacorps should buy 1 of every book (if they want to train on it)

Re: Sarah Silverman is suing OpenAI and Meta for copyright infringement

#552

Post by freyes »

pessimizer wrote: post #86

> The complaint lays out in steps why the plaintiffs believe the datasets have illicit origins — in a Meta paper detailing LLaMA, the company points to sources for its training datasets, one of which is called ThePile, which was assembled by a company called EleutherAI. ThePile, the complaint points out, was described in an EleutherAI paper as being put together from “a copy of the contents of the Bibliotik private t…

We need the dude who prosecuted Aaron Swartz here. This sucks.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Swartz

Re: Sarah Silverman is suing OpenAI and Meta for copyright infringement

#553

Post by rightbyte »

throw10920 wrote: post #527
temp51723 wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If everyone is allowed to steal books Nothing was stolen- just copied.

> Nothing was stolen- just copied. This typical semantic-pedantry line from piracy apologists misses the point - piracy is theft-adjacent even if you get to pick your use of "theft". Incidentally, my definition of "theft", and that of most content creators, includes the act of consuming something without compensating the creator on their terms - which includes piracy.

[flagged]

Re: Sarah Silverman is suing OpenAI and Meta for copyright infringement

#554

Post by danicriss »

throw10920 wrote: post #525
holmesworcester wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's take a second to remember that copyright is the reason ~every child doesn't have access to ~every book ever written. While it might be too disruptive to eliminate copyright overnight, we should remember that our world will be much better and improve much faster to the extent we can reduce copyright's impact. And we should cheer it on when it happens. A majority of the world's population in 2023 has a smartphone…

> Let's take a second to remember This is emotionally manipulative speech that provides no value to HN and only serves the purpose of bypassing peoples' logical reasoning circuits. > ~every child doesn't have access to ~every book ever written More manipulation - "think of the children!" Copyright exists because people who produce content with low distribution costs (e.g. books) need some protection for their work be…

Copyright is a system meant to ensure creators get compensated proportionally to the value they add to society

It is a bad system though. It restrains the society from benefitting from said work unless they meet certain terms (usually, payments). It's often times unrealistic to pay for all you'd like to consume. Especially that access to their work is usually badly quantised

(For example, I may want to search Sarah Silverman's book for a keyword, once. That'll cost me the same amount as someone reading the book from start to end. [please take this as an illustrative example and don't jump literally on ways to solve this exact problem])

I don't have a better solution yet, but I think we should definitely open up this discussion: can you come up with a system which compensates those who add value to society without restraining access to their products?

I'll go even further to say this is the fundamental issue in our society, way beyond copyright. That is, to find a way to compensate people for the value they add while eliminating the incentive to artificially limit access to resources needed by others

I'll be more concrete with another example. Take a limited resource: housing. In a society where you don't need to gain more because you're already justly compensated maximally for what you're worth, you don't need to own more than the house you live in. In other words, I'm advocating for a society where ownership is limited to what can be possibly consumed. Importantly, limited to no longer mean a way to extract value from artificially creating scarcity for others

I think this website has the best candidates capable of devising such a system. But we need to start by having conversations about the requirements for a better society

It will further need approval from society at large even if it's well defined, so the road is long. But we need to start somewhere, and that's requirements

Sorry I derailed a bit, but I think all this ties closely to the debate: 'is copyright a good system?' rephrased as 'if we want to achieve a goal, is limiting knowledge the best way to go?'. Which can be extrapolated to 'is artificially limiting access the best way to ensure those who produce value are equitably compensated for it?'

Re: Sarah Silverman is suing OpenAI and Meta for copyright infringement

#555

Post by randomcarbloke »

pessimizer wrote: post #86

> The complaint lays out in steps why the plaintiffs believe the datasets have illicit origins — in a Meta paper detailing LLaMA, the company points to sources for its training datasets, one of which is called ThePile, which was assembled by a company called EleutherAI. ThePile, the complaint points out, was described in an EleutherAI paper as being put together from “a copy of the contents of the Bibliotik private t…

a machine shouldn't have to pay to read a book.

Re: Sarah Silverman is suing OpenAI and Meta for copyright infringement

#556

Post by all_factz »

holmesworcester wrote: post #262
pessimizer wrote: post #86

> The complaint lays out in steps why the plaintiffs believe the datasets have illicit origins — in a Meta paper detailing LLaMA, the company points to sources for its training datasets, one of which is called ThePile, which was assembled by a company called EleutherAI. ThePile, the complaint points out, was described in an EleutherAI paper as being put together from “a copy of the contents of the Bibliotik private t…

Let's take a second to remember that copyright is the reason ~every child doesn't have access to ~every book ever written. While it might be too disruptive to eliminate copyright overnight, we should remember that our world will be much better and improve much faster to the extent we can reduce copyright's impact. And we should cheer it on when it happens. A majority of the world's population in 2023 has a smartphone…

I would be much more sympathetic to this stance if you weren’t implicitly endorsing the rights of companies like Meta/Alphabet/OpenAI to profit from the disruption of copyright law. If we’re talking ordinary people being able to breach copyright, then yeah seems potentially interesting. But let’s remember that these companies aren’t acting altruistically. They’re not giving away Silverman’s work - they’re repackaging it for their own profit. That’s not fair to the artist and in fact does not help the children.

Re: Sarah Silverman is suing OpenAI and Meta for copyright infringement

#557

Post by JustLurking2022 »

onlypositive wrote: post #546
JustLurking2022 wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an absolute pile of nonsense. People who author creative works deserve to have control of them and make some money - otherwise you'll soon find we have far fewer great authors, artists, etc. This is essentially the same as saying builders charging for houses is the problem with the housing market, so we're going to phase out paying builders.

> otherwise you'll soon find we have far fewer great authors, artists, etc. It's been long understood that this idea isn't based on any real evidence. Creators create because they like to create things. Adding money to the mix tends to ruin most creative endeavours. Look up beautification or note how Googles only good search results involve the keyword Reddit.

Hilarious you claim something isn't based on any real evidence, while providing zero evidence to back the claim up.

Re: Sarah Silverman is suing OpenAI and Meta for copyright infringement

#558

Post by rowanG077 »

throw10920 wrote: post #527
temp51723 wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If everyone is allowed to steal books Nothing was stolen- just copied.

> Nothing was stolen- just copied. This typical semantic-pedantry line from piracy apologists misses the point - piracy is theft-adjacent even if you get to pick your use of "theft". Incidentally, my definition of "theft", and that of most content creators, includes the act of consuming something without compensating the creator on their terms - which includes piracy.

A fundamental property of theft is that the action deprives someone of something they had. Piracy is not theft-adjacent. It has nothing do to with theft. It's a completely different concept.

Re: Sarah Silverman is suing OpenAI and Meta for copyright infringement

#559

Post by cainxinth »

danicriss wrote: post #554
throw10920 wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let's take a second to remember This is emotionally manipulative speech that provides no value to HN and only serves the purpose of bypassing peoples' logical reasoning circuits. > ~every child doesn't have access to ~every book ever written More manipulation - "think of the children!" Copyright exists because people who produce content with low distribution costs (e.g. books) need some protection for their work be…

Copyright is a system meant to ensure creators get compensated proportionally to the value they add to society It is a bad system though. It restrains the society from benefitting from said work unless they meet certain terms (usually, payments). It's often times unrealistic to pay for all you'd like to consume. Especially that access to their work is usually badly quantised (For example, I may want to search Sarah S…

> Copyright is a system meant to ensure creators get compensated proportionally to the value they add to society

Compensation to the creators was merely a means to an end. Furthering progress was the goal:

> Article I, Section 8, Clause 8: Patent and Copyright Clause of the Constitution. [The Congress shall have power] “To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries.”

Re: Sarah Silverman is suing OpenAI and Meta for copyright infringement

#560

Post by tr_user »

holmesworcester wrote: post #262
pessimizer wrote: post #86

> The complaint lays out in steps why the plaintiffs believe the datasets have illicit origins — in a Meta paper detailing LLaMA, the company points to sources for its training datasets, one of which is called ThePile, which was assembled by a company called EleutherAI. ThePile, the complaint points out, was described in an EleutherAI paper as being put together from “a copy of the contents of the Bibliotik private t…

Let's take a second to remember that copyright is the reason ~every child doesn't have access to ~every book ever written. While it might be too disruptive to eliminate copyright overnight, we should remember that our world will be much better and improve much faster to the extent we can reduce copyright's impact. And we should cheer it on when it happens. A majority of the world's population in 2023 has a smartphone…

Try adding censorship to that list.
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