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Sarah Silverman is suing OpenAI and Meta for copyright infringement

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Re: Sarah Silverman is suing OpenAI and Meta for copyright infringement

#531

Post by throw10920 »

aaomidi wrote: post #299
holmesworcester wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's take a second to remember that copyright is the reason ~every child doesn't have access to ~every book ever written. While it might be too disruptive to eliminate copyright overnight, we should remember that our world will be much better and improve much faster to the extent we can reduce copyright's impact. And we should cheer it on when it happens. A majority of the world's population in 2023 has a smartphone…

Using charged language of bringing children into the equation is not a good way in having a discussion.

It's straight-up manipulative. I downvote and flag whenever I see it, because it actively contributes to the decline of HN, and is absolutely not appropriate content for here.

Re: Sarah Silverman is suing OpenAI and Meta for copyright infringement

#532

Post by jdm2212 »

gs17 wrote: post #504
jdm2212 wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That's not really the same, you could have a copy of my credit card, but you using it to make purchases would become an issue. Regardless, that quickly steps out of the domain of intellectual property.

If I use your copied credit card to buy software, all that happens is (a) some bits get written to my computer's hard disk and (b) some bits get written to a Visa or Mastercard server's hard disk. Why would you get upset about that?

EDIT: ok, it's fun playing obtuse, but more seriously it is also very obtuse to pretend that intellectual property is not property. I think you have to be pretty stupid to not understand why an author who spends a decade painstakingly creating a work of literature is entitled to ownership of reproductions of that work.

Re: Sarah Silverman is suing OpenAI and Meta for copyright infringement

#533

Post by cthalupa »

ec109685 wrote: post #51
Imnimo wrote: post #38

>On information and belief, the reason ChatGPT can accurately summarize a certain copyrighted book is because that book was copied by OpenAI and ingested by the underlying OpenAI Language Model (either GPT-3.5 or GPT-4) as part of its training data. While it strikes me as perfectly plausible that the Books2 dataset contains Silverman's book, this quote from the complaint seems obviously false. First, even if the mode…

The playground summarizes it as this via GPT-4: Prompt: Please summarize the following book found on Project Gutenberg The Ruby of Kishmoor Response: "The Ruby of Kishmoor" is a short adventure story written by Howard Pyle. The narrative revolves around the life of Jonathan Rugg, a young man who is enticed by a mysterious stranger to come to the Caribbean to secure a valuable relic, the Ruby of Kishmoor. Once Jonatha…

I was able to get ChatGPT 4 to attempt to summarize this, but it's almost entirely hallucinated.

>As of my knowledge cutoff in September 2021, the book "The Ruby of Kishmoor" is not a standalone title I am aware of. However, it is a short story by Howard Pyle which is part of his collection titled "Howard Pyle's Book of Pirates."

Ruby of Kishmoor is not part of the Book of Pirates and is in fact a standalone title.

>"The Ruby of Kishmoor" is an adventure tale centered on the protagonist, Jonathan Rugg. Rugg, an honest Quaker clothier from Philadelphia, sets out to sea to recover his lost wealth. On his journey, he is captured by pirates who force him to sign their articles and join their crew.

He is not captured by pirates. It proceeds to summarize a long pirate story and says the story concludes with him becoming extremely wealthy because he escapes with the ruby and sells it.

The summary it gave you also does not seem to match the plot of the book.

Since the GP's point seems to be that having the contents of a book does not mean the model is capable of properly summarizing it, and thus supports the idea that being able to summarize something is not evidence of it containing the thing being summarized in it's dataset.

Re: Sarah Silverman is suing OpenAI and Meta for copyright infringement

#534

Post by mensetmanusman »

throw10920 wrote: post #525
holmesworcester wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's take a second to remember that copyright is the reason ~every child doesn't have access to ~every book ever written. While it might be too disruptive to eliminate copyright overnight, we should remember that our world will be much better and improve much faster to the extent we can reduce copyright's impact. And we should cheer it on when it happens. A majority of the world's population in 2023 has a smartphone…

> Let's take a second to remember This is emotionally manipulative speech that provides no value to HN and only serves the purpose of bypassing peoples' logical reasoning circuits. > ~every child doesn't have access to ~every book ever written More manipulation - "think of the children!" Copyright exists because people who produce content with low distribution costs (e.g. books) need some protection for their work be…

It's worth challenging the length of copyright. 20 years seems good enough for high tech R&D, probably good for books as well.

Re: Sarah Silverman is suing OpenAI and Meta for copyright infringement

#536

Post by rileymat2 »

throw10920 wrote: post #525
holmesworcester wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's take a second to remember that copyright is the reason ~every child doesn't have access to ~every book ever written. While it might be too disruptive to eliminate copyright overnight, we should remember that our world will be much better and improve much faster to the extent we can reduce copyright's impact. And we should cheer it on when it happens. A majority of the world's population in 2023 has a smartphone…

> Let's take a second to remember This is emotionally manipulative speech that provides no value to HN and only serves the purpose of bypassing peoples' logical reasoning circuits. > ~every child doesn't have access to ~every book ever written More manipulation - "think of the children!" Copyright exists because people who produce content with low distribution costs (e.g. books) need some protection for their work be…

> Fundamentally, you are never entitled to someone else's work.

This is fair but incomplete, you are not entitled to compel someone to work.

But copyright is more, it controls what is done with the work after the author freely produces it and gives it to another. It is an artificial construct that we have created for good reason.

Re: Sarah Silverman is suing OpenAI and Meta for copyright infringement

#537

Post by throw10920 »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #534
throw10920 wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let's take a second to remember This is emotionally manipulative speech that provides no value to HN and only serves the purpose of bypassing peoples' logical reasoning circuits. > ~every child doesn't have access to ~every book ever written More manipulation - "think of the children!" Copyright exists because people who produce content with low distribution costs (e.g. books) need some protection for their work be…

It's worth challenging the length of copyright. 20 years seems good enough for high tech R&D, probably good for books as well.

Sure! Yes! I agree! 100 years is way too long. 20 years is much more reasonable. But the comment that I was responding to (and many others in this thread) are advocating for the complete removal of copyright, and that's what I'm responding to.

Re: Sarah Silverman is suing OpenAI and Meta for copyright infringement

#538

Post by throw10920 »

rileymat2 wrote: post #536
throw10920 wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let's take a second to remember This is emotionally manipulative speech that provides no value to HN and only serves the purpose of bypassing peoples' logical reasoning circuits. > ~every child doesn't have access to ~every book ever written More manipulation - "think of the children!" Copyright exists because people who produce content with low distribution costs (e.g. books) need some protection for their work be…

> Fundamentally, you are never entitled to someone else's work. This is fair but incomplete, you are not entitled to compel someone to work. But copyright is more, it controls what is done with the work after the author freely produces it and gives it to another. It is an artificial construct that we have created for good reason.

> it controls what is done with the work after the author freely produces it and gives it to another

No, not "gives" - sells. There's a transaction involved - and part of copyright law is preserving that transactional nature, such that person A doesn't sell their work exactly once to person B who proceeds to give it away for free to every other person on the planet.

The fact that the creator of a work sells it to one person does not give that person license to pirate it.

Re: Sarah Silverman is suing OpenAI and Meta for copyright infringement

#539

Post by squeaky-clean »

GeoAtreides wrote: post #421
listenallyall wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about you go figure out this new economic model, and come back when it's ready. Until then, the existing model will persist, thank you

Oh boy, do I have good news for you! There are already many writers making thousands of dollars a month by publishing free serialized web novels, via Patreon. Some are using their own websites, but most are on Royal Road (or scribblehub, webnovel, wattpad, AO3). A random example from Royal Road[1], the author makes $12065/month. Mind you, the text is not gated, it's free to read, the patreon only offers early access.…

> the patreon only offers early access

So it's still copyright, just without the 100 year protection.

If you went around posting their early access posts to a free website do you think the authors wouldn't complain?

Re: Sarah Silverman is suing OpenAI and Meta for copyright infringement

#540

Post by squeaky-clean »

leereeves wrote: post #332
listenallyall wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes even less sense than the previous guy. When you've figured out how the world will work without people incentivized by money and power, get back to the rest of us

Suing people for reading a book is one of the ways the poor are kept poor. The world will work just fine without ceding control to people who seek money and power, because most people aren't like that. The question is how to prevent the few who are from oppressing the rest of us. That is quite a challenge, but haven't you ever created something just for the fun of it?

Making it so you can't write for a living is one way to make sure only the rich can spread knowledge.
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