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“Coning” AVs is part of a long tradition of tactical urbanism

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Re: “Coning” AVs is part of a long tradition of tactical urbanism

#81
post #69
post #10

This particularly protest is elegant because it's effective exactly to the extent that self-driving cars are not adaptable—it highlights the brittleness of the system by getting a substantial effect from a small nudge.

I think it highlights how the system is tuned to safety over all other concerns. If there had been cones put on vehicles being driven by actual humans, you'd probably have had a few bad injuries or deaths.

> I think it highlights how the system is tuned to safety over all other concerns.

To be able to focus on something above all else, you first need to be able to unequivocally define what "it" is.

What is safety? It's not always the same thing, which is why the simplistic models of these cars fail to do the right thing in some edge cases where a human would know what to do.

Generally it seems they simply slow down and stop when confused. Which unarguably is very often the safest thing to do.

But then there are the examples where the car stops, blocking emergency vehicles. Clearly not the safe thing to do. Human drivers sometimes do things like drive up into the sidewalk to clear way for an ambulance in a tight spot. Driving onto a sidewalk is nearly always the worst possible thing, but sometimes the right thing to do. It's easy for human drivers to make this judgment.

Re: “Coning” AVs is part of a long tradition of tactical urbanism

#82
post #69
post #10

This particularly protest is elegant because it's effective exactly to the extent that self-driving cars are not adaptable—it highlights the brittleness of the system by getting a substantial effect from a small nudge.

I think it highlights how the system is tuned to safety over all other concerns. If there had been cones put on vehicles being driven by actual humans, you'd probably have had a few bad injuries or deaths.

I don't think anyone would drive with a cone on their hood, unless they had no other choice (i.e. they could not remove it).

Re: “Coning” AVs is part of a long tradition of tactical urbanism

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's being too kind to them. Luddites didn't actively try to maintain a state of affairs that resulted in 30,000 deaths per year in their country alone. These idiots are doing just that.

You could avoid those by getting rid of cars, rather than adding more cars controlled by unaccountable programs with OTA updates pushed by people saying YOLO.

You could do pretty much whatever you want, if you could get hold of enough guns.

Re: “Coning” AVs is part of a long tradition of tactical urbanism

#84
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, unlike urban planners have spent decades studying and understanding urban transportation systems and their relation to the socio-economic fabric of cities, the AV companies are just part of another giant Silicon Valley circlejerk.

The "urban planners" have had their say, and we've all seen the results. It's time to let someone else try.

Go for it, but the cruxes of these problems aren't technological. They're political and cultural.

Re: “Coning” AVs is part of a long tradition of tactical urbanism

#85
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather see them deflating the tires on any trucks beyond a certain size parked in cities

There are people who believe we shouldn't have personal vehicles at all. Would it be OK for them to deflate the tires on Priuses and Nissan Leafs they find parked in their city?

1. The chance of getting popular support for a protest like this diminishes with the number of people you piss off. You may be able to earn some sympathy by targeting SUVs only, but doing the same with all cars wouldn't be a good strategy.

2. There are good reasons to own a car, and in some places a significant number of people may be justified in using one. Blanket targeting everyone would be unfair to those who really need it. By contrast, SUVs don't have any (significant?) utility over a regular car (other than ego boosting maybe...).

Re: “Coning” AVs is part of a long tradition of tactical urbanism

#86

[dead]

Go ahead and keep doing that, while also letting public transportation get filthier and less safe every day. See what happens to car ownership.

If you are a public transit "activist", I'd suggest trying to actually improve public transit (like enforcing fares, hiring more operators, etc) instead of continuing your crusade against cars. Otherwise, speaking from personal experience, more people will give up on public transportation and turn to personal vehicles instead.

Re: “Coning” AVs is part of a long tradition of tactical urbanism

#87
post #86

[dead]

Go ahead and keep doing that, while also letting public transportation get filthier and less safe every day. See what happens to car ownership. If you are a public transit "activist", I'd suggest trying to actually improve public transit (like enforcing fares, hiring more operators, etc) instead of continuing your crusade against cars. Otherwise, speaking from personal experience, more people will give up on public t…

Oh don't worry, were definitely fighting for better public transit too! Top-down successes like ensuring state bridge funding to prevent a death spiral for now (was a big multi-coalition effort), local support for new bus lanes (e.g. on Geary), to bottom-up direct action work that is secret :)

Re: “Coning” AVs is part of a long tradition of tactical urbanism

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather see them deflating the tires on any trucks beyond a certain size parked in cities

this is a thing! https://www.independent.ie/regionals/dublin/dublin-news/tyre...

Yes! We fully support this, but we really need the EPA to close the monster SUV /truck loophole. Otherwise there is economic incentive for people to keep buying these insane trucks

Re: “Coning” AVs is part of a long tradition of tactical urbanism

#89

It was literally the District 5 Supervisor Dean Preston’s “youth coordinator” aid who astroturfed this with some DSA people, to distract from his handling of the Tenderloin. He got caught bragging on Twitter and then deleted the tweets. You can still find the commentary around it if you search. This is part of a long tradition of lying for political benefit, not tactical anything.

Lol no that kid is not some mastermind behind this, though we appreciate his coning contribution, as well as his work on the Youth Commission (which is just an unpaid advisory board of young people).

Re: “Coning” AVs is part of a long tradition of tactical urbanism

#90
post #34
post #10

This particularly protest is elegant because it's effective exactly to the extent that self-driving cars are not adaptable—it highlights the brittleness of the system by getting a substantial effect from a small nudge.

It was a political stunt by an aide to one of SF's supervisors. It did not arise organically from people upset about self driving cars. I don't think there was anything elegant about it. Just politics as usual in SF where the progressives battle the über-progressives over meaningless issues like re-naming schools while homeless people die on the street, the Tenderloin is an open sewer, and downtown withers away. It r…

Lol we're literally people living in SF upset about self driving cars. And the no the youth comissioner you're referring to is not some mastermind behind this, but we appreciate his political activism both with coning and with volunteering to be on the youth commission advisory board :)
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