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NixOS and my descent into insanity

ersei.net

11–20 of 120 posts

Re: NixOS and my descent into insanity

#11
post #7

Well this is enough to put anyone off Nix. Such a shame because the abstract idea is obviously a good one. But every time Nix/NixOS comes up the story is the same. Terrible UX. Terrible documentation. Is Guix any better?

Over half the blogpost is the user describing how they were able to get nix set up on a machine they don't have admin permissions to, and had a 4 GiB disk quota limit.

Those constraints don't really apply if you have admin control of your machine.

(And the troubles in the first half were caused by zealously diving deeper with Nix, after an initial simple setup went well).

Re: NixOS and my descent into insanity

#12
post #3
post #2

> At this point I had a home.nix that spanned a couple of thousand lines. This is a bad idea, mostly because it's hard to manage. This has also been my experience with home-manager. The promise is great - it's like DLC for Nix that just Does More™. Then you get into it, and realize the modules are a lot more fragile and most of them are outdated. Then you're a few hundred lines in with workarounds, DBUS declarations…

Sad to see the Nix team can't get UX right. Their technology is on point.

There's a massive push to improve UX but it'll take time for things to happen and it's only really just in the last few years that nix has gained the popularity in industry for there to be more than just a few groups spending engineering hours towards improving things.

Re: NixOS and my descent into insanity

#13
NixOS is awful except for everything else out there. The learning curve is... steep. The documentation sucks. You have to learn a new OS because a lot of your prior Linux knowledge no longer applies.

But, man, it's so slick when you get it working. It's so easy to understand your system and how it's set up. There's no weird stuff changing between updates that you don't know about. You don't have to merge new configurations. It's so easy to try something new without changing your system. Rollbacks are awesome. It's easy to move your config to a new machine or keep multiple machines in sync. My machines were constantly getting out of sync as far as packages, versions, config, etc. and it was a headache to maintain them all the way I like. Not anymore. It's so easy to maintain working NixOS systems. I have the same packages, users, and config on my machines without having to think about it. I have automatic updates going where I get a new system when I reboot. It basically works like an appliance I don't have to think about except it's set up the way I want it instead of how someone else decided it should work.

There are so many nice things about NixOS, but it sucks. It's the worst thing out there except for everything else. I hate it and I feel like I can't go back either. I would love a NixOS-like system with a better language, documentation on par with Arch, and the reliability of Debian.

Re: NixOS and my descent into insanity

#14
Le sigh, another day, another group of people turned off on NixOS for completely legitimate learning curve, documentation, and support reasons that are nonetheless heartbreakingly fixable. It’s never the user’s fault.

Home manager is a well-intentioned and technically well-executed piece of software that is nonetheless a disaster as the “how to do dots on Nix” story, especially for newcomers. We need “Home Manager Light” or something.

I’m a fucking serious Nix-head and I procrastinate doing anything serious to my dots like getting a root canal.

Re: NixOS and my descent into insanity

#15
post #6

If I understand it right, https://getfleek.dev/ will turn a simpler yaml config into home-manager/nix/flake config. Might be a simpler way to get started. Haven't started down into the Nix abyss myself though…

https://www.jetpack.io/devbox converts a simple json config into a nix dev environment.

Re: NixOS and my descent into insanity

#16
post #13

NixOS is awful except for everything else out there. The learning curve is... steep. The documentation sucks. You have to learn a new OS because a lot of your prior Linux knowledge no longer applies. But, man, it's so slick when you get it working. It's so easy to understand your system and how it's set up. There's no weird stuff changing between updates that you don't know about. You don't have to merge new configur…

Prior Linux knowledge still applies and is required, it is just managed differently.

Another language won't change much.

Debian reliability is outside of core packages a myth and Debian has no way to properly migrate configuration. Every major update is a wild rollercoaster ride were things might break in the middle.

Re: NixOS and my descent into insanity

#17
> It looked cool, and I was getting kinda sick of Zsh being slow in big Git repositories.

Sorry, what? If your zsh is slow in a big git repository, that's on you, not zsh. I honestly have a hard time taking anything else in this article seriously after reading that.

edit: the article is good. I was being harsh. Nix is horrible, and yet I refuse to use anything else.

Re: NixOS and my descent into insanity

#18
post #3
post #2

> At this point I had a home.nix that spanned a couple of thousand lines. This is a bad idea, mostly because it's hard to manage. This has also been my experience with home-manager. The promise is great - it's like DLC for Nix that just Does More™. Then you get into it, and realize the modules are a lot more fragile and most of them are outdated. Then you're a few hundred lines in with workarounds, DBUS declarations…

Sad to see the Nix team can't get UX right. Their technology is on point.

Well, for most other distro you also Google around and back someone together all the time, we just got used to it.

Re: NixOS and my descent into insanity

#19

Le sigh, another day, another group of people turned off on NixOS for completely legitimate learning curve, documentation, and support reasons that are nonetheless heartbreakingly fixable. It’s never the user’s fault . Home manager is a well-intentioned and technically well-executed piece of software that is nonetheless a disaster as the “how to do dots on Nix” story, especially for newcomers. We need “Home Manager L…

On the contrary for me, playing around with nix and nixos is how I procrastinate everything. It's incredibly effective.

Re: NixOS and my descent into insanity

#20
Yep, UX is a terrible issue. FWIW, I went through this too and after swapping to flakes and getting familiar with the ecosystem, I feel like I just "get it" more. There are still idiosyncracies of the language and the magic that is done in Nix core libraries that are frustrating to work through, but for 99% of daily tasks I feel better. I had a similar learning curve with Rust. It's worth it for me! So tl;dr don't be too put off by the learning curve, it's not impossible, just more than it should be.
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