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Dashcam images reveal where police are deployed

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Re: Dashcam images reveal where police are deployed

#21
post #7

>Areas with more police vehicle images included wealthy commercial zones and low-income neighborhoods with higher proportions of Black and Latino residents. Does this really surprise anyone? Lower income areas have more crime. I don't understand why race is a factor here.

It depends how you read that sentence.

Race doesn't matter if "low-income neighborhoods with higher proportions of Black and Latino residents" is simply stating that all low income neighborhoods have higher proportions of Black and Latino residents. Although it's kind of relevant if all downstream bias in arrests etc, say, goes away when you control for income.

But I read it as "of all low income neighborhoods, ones with higher proportions of Black and Latino residents had more police vehicle images". In which case, the question is:

Why would similar-income neighborhoods (which you theorize should have similar crime levels regardless of race) be policed differently based on the race of the population?

Re: Dashcam images reveal where police are deployed

#22

I remember the outcry when Google Glass first came out. Now ordinary cams, image datasets plus AI reveals much more than an ordinary people moving around and seeing/recording things as they are happening. What could we uncover from the data if more cams and sensors are added to AI systems which can process real time data. We watched Person of Interest as Sci-Fi, but it's becoming utopian considering what we possibly…

Rewatching Person of Interest now. Amazing how relevant it is; aged incredibly well.

Re: Dashcam images reveal where police are deployed

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could argue that those areas have more crime because they have a disproportionate amount of cops to observe crime.

You could say that, but you would look quite silly.

Not in every case.

https://www.livescience.com/59329-drug-alcohol-addiction-wea...

> By age 22, lifetime rates of addiction to drugs or alcohol were 11 to 16 percent among women from affluent families, which is similar to the national norms; the rates were 19 to 27 percent among men from affluent families, twice the national norms, according to the study.

> But a more troubling trend emerged by age 26: Lifetime rates of addiction to drugs or alcohol were 19 to 24 percent among women from wealthier upbringings and 23 to 40 percent among men from those families. These rates were three times higher than the national average for women, and two times higher in men.

This does't match up with drug arrest rates.

Re: Dashcam images reveal where police are deployed

#24
post #7

>Areas with more police vehicle images included wealthy commercial zones and low-income neighborhoods with higher proportions of Black and Latino residents. Does this really surprise anyone? Lower income areas have more crime. I don't understand why race is a factor here.

> Among the researchers’ findings: Gramercy Park, in Midtown Manhattan, had the most police vehicles visible in dashcam images -- almost 20 times more than Arden Heights/Rossville, in southern Staten Island, which had the fewest. the residential neighborhood with a quarter mil average income and a literal private garden has the most visible police presence in the city

[deleted]

Re: Dashcam images reveal where police are deployed

#25
post #7

>Areas with more police vehicle images included wealthy commercial zones and low-income neighborhoods with higher proportions of Black and Latino residents. Does this really surprise anyone? Lower income areas have more crime. I don't understand why race is a factor here.

I see a viscious cycle if being policed aggressively, producing further poverty, increasing crime, encouraging more aggressive policing.

The evidence I have seen is that more aggressive policing fundamentally fails at changing systemic poverty that is the root of the issue, and the funding that is funnelled into it would be better put into things like drug programmes to rehabilitate people, social programmes to help people keep in education/work, funding for safe and legal opportunities for kids, support for education and public facilities so people get opportunity to improve their situations generationally, etc...

Race is a factor becuase slavery and post-slavery racism have created a huge wealth gap, and redlining pushed black people into these areas. Yes, of course crime is more prevelant in these areas, but that doesn't mean race isn't a factor. It doesn't have to be police officers thinking "I'm going to be racist today" for it to unfairly hurt people based on race.

Re: Dashcam images reveal where police are deployed

#26
> Two strikingly different types of areas experience high police vehicle deployments — 1) dense, higher-income, commercial areas and 2) lower-income neighborhoods with higher proportions of Black and Hispanic residents. We discuss the implications of these disparities for policing equity and for algorithms trained on policing data.

You can see the history of police in this. Uniformed police depts were founded by merchants wanting to protect their property and socialize the costs.

Prior to uniformed police, we had town watch/night watch/shire reeves . These folks were drawn from the citizenry and pulled a shift watching things, and it was considered quite a nuisance and unglamorous.

Eventually, wealthy folks started paying others to take their shifts on the watch, and a cottage industry emerged. At that time, watches were still loosely organized and without uniform.

In the mid 1800s, two phenomena occurred that molded police. The first was the idea that a uniformed guard would have a preventative effect on crime in wealthier areas (which resulted in early police depts in London and Boston, iirc). And the second was the increasingly structured and bold slave patrols. The two concepts both focused on protecting wealth (at that time, slaves were property just like warehouses and factories).

Over time, the two merged somewhat. Some police departments emerged directly from slave patrols, others never had anything to do with slave patrols and instead focused on protecting docks and the like.

The results of this research saying, "wealth and race seem to be where police are deployed" is a fascinating rhyme to the origins of police.

(Note, I'm deliberately not saying "cause" or "reflection" here - I do not have the data to say why police are deployed this way. I'm just noting the way it rhymes with history.)

Re: Dashcam images reveal where police are deployed

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could argue that those areas have more crime because they have a disproportionate amount of cops to observe crime.

And that would be a poor argument. Common sense would say otherwise.

It's important to note that common sense itself is a bias. It's a bias towards what we already think. Don't mistake that as trying to say that for "we should avoid priors" - that's not possible. What would it take for you to soften (not move) your priors on the common sense that "police aren't co-creators in crime through the act of observation"?

Re: Dashcam images reveal where police are deployed

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could argue that those areas have more crime because they have a disproportionate amount of cops to observe crime.

And that would be a poor argument. Common sense would say otherwise.

Are you arguing that more police does help against crime, but does not raise the amount of crime discovered by the police?

Re: Dashcam images reveal where police are deployed

#30

I remember the outcry when Google Glass first came out. Now ordinary cams, image datasets plus AI reveals much more than an ordinary people moving around and seeing/recording things as they are happening. What could we uncover from the data if more cams and sensors are added to AI systems which can process real time data. We watched Person of Interest as Sci-Fi, but it's becoming utopian considering what we possibly…

I'm not far into it, so I don't know how good it will be. However FX's 'Class of 2009' seems interesting too where FBI agents have AI strapped to them feeding the dataset at all times. The show jumps between 2009, 2023, and like 2035 or something and the implications of such a system.
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