Live data from Hacker News

Uber, DoorDash Sue NYC to Stop Delivery Drivers from Getting a Minimum Wage

vice.com

91–100 of 124 posts

Re: Uber, DoorDash Sue NYC to Stop Delivery Drivers from Getting a Minimum Wage

#91
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not a rip off, it’s the fact that having another person do everything for you is fundamentally too expensive unless there is a massive pay imbalance.

Unless you're loaded, its most def a rip off. After the restaurant gets their share, the government fee/taxes, employee wages, doordash fees, delivery driver wages ... 5-10% of the bill is actually food cost.

A rip off implies some kind of scam or unreasonable markup. Which isn't the case, it's just inherently expensive to have someone bring food to your door.

Re: Uber, DoorDash Sue NYC to Stop Delivery Drivers from Getting a Minimum Wage

#92
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The agreement is that if you earn a wage you have your time available for the employer, so they could no longer reject offers. You're saying that they should get both the benefits of freelancers (pick work) and employees (minimum wage).

So? The employer can refuse to contract with them if they can't fulfill their obligations

How will they stay in business? Of course they would have to raise prices significantly, but people just wouldn’t order takeout anymore and would rather pick up themselves.

Other than the obvious authoritarianism, that would also harm the environment with people driving a lot more.

Re: Uber, DoorDash Sue NYC to Stop Delivery Drivers from Getting a Minimum Wage

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To be clear before I say anything: I think the entire food delivery app business model is bad for all parties involved and that these companies are bad actors. Funny I have the exact opposite opinion. I think it's good for all parties involved. Restaurants get a bigger market. Delivery people get more freedom at work. Eaters get convenience. Delivery apps get a piece of the revenue for efficiently routing drivers a…

>Delivery people get more freedom at work. Getting paid 7 bucks an hour in NYC: that's freedom, baby!

The real minimum wage is always 0.

Re: Uber, DoorDash Sue NYC to Stop Delivery Drivers from Getting a Minimum Wage

#95
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it's truly bad for all parties, there'd be no Uber Eats, no one would order from Uber Eats, no restaurant would sign up, and no one would deliver. What a strange take. If I take 3 billion dollars and setup a company that flies in people from other parts of the country at a loss to do your job for half the money you get for it, and have everyone compete for it, then when you lose your job and the business you wor…

I don't think the moat for food delivery is big enough that capturing the market and hiking prices is a realistic option. Uber eats already has plenty of competition (at least in my country) from foodora, wolt and bolt food.

So, with a net income of -$9 billion, what is their business plan, then?

* https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/uber/company-pro...

Re: Uber, DoorDash Sue NYC to Stop Delivery Drivers from Getting a Minimum Wage

#97

> DoorDash argues in its lawsuit, however, that the law is improperly implemented, because it would force companies to pay workers for any time logged into the app, regardless of whether they were delivering or not, and that the DCWP ignored “mountains of hard data and analysis, and over emphatic objections from a range of constituents” in order to implement it. I really wish companies weren't able to sue over this k…

So I happen to agree with NYC in this case. But, being able to legally challenge a law is pretty fundamental to the US. For instance, in the case where this law is unconstitutional, or conflicts with a federal law, this is exactly how one ought to challenge it.

Re: Uber, DoorDash Sue NYC to Stop Delivery Drivers from Getting a Minimum Wage

#98

> DoorDash argues in its lawsuit, however, that the law is improperly implemented, because it would force companies to pay workers for any time logged into the app, regardless of whether they were delivering or not, and that the DCWP ignored “mountains of hard data and analysis, and over emphatic objections from a range of constituents” in order to implement it. I really wish companies weren't able to sue over this k…

So I happen to agree with NYC in this case. But, being able to legally challenge a law is pretty fundamental to the US. For instance, in the case where this law is unconstitutional, or conflicts with a federal law, this is exactly how one ought to challenge it.

Right, so I agree those are examples of grounds on which you should be able to challenge a law (unconstitutionality, conflicts with a law of higher jurisdiction). It's important for those to exist, but they should be limited.

What I take issue with is quotes like the one in GP. "The law is improperly implemented, because it would force companies to pay workers for any time logged into the app." So what? If the city decides workers should be paid for time spent getting their phones repaired, the companies should have to do that to. I don't know what the legal process here is but there's clearly too much of it.

Another choice quote:

> For instance, why would the agency choose to purposefully exclude companies that only facilitate grocery deliveries from its study and rulemaking, when those that facilitate both restaurant and grocery deliveries from local businesses would have these rules apply to them?

I don't know. Why does it matter? People often complain that government regulations aren't able to keep pace with private industry, but it's because of this BS slowing everything down that they can't keep pace! Let's empower the government to actually make rules and give them responsibility for the consequences.

Some of Ezra Klein's recent podcast episodes are weighing on my mind here, particularly https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/06/opinion/ezra-klein-podcas...

Re: Uber, DoorDash Sue NYC to Stop Delivery Drivers from Getting a Minimum Wage

#99

> DoorDash argues in its lawsuit, however, that the law is improperly implemented, because it would force companies to pay workers for any time logged into the app, regardless of whether they were delivering or not, and that the DCWP ignored “mountains of hard data and analysis, and over emphatic objections from a range of constituents” in order to implement it. I really wish companies weren't able to sue over this k…

I live in NYC, and there are a whole lot of layers to this onion. I'm advocating for safety improvements on a local road that people get hurt and killed on pretty regularly[1]. The DOT has a well-designed change that they've been working on for over two years, complete with community outreach. The change has broad community support, and every single elected official in the area is behind it, from the city council to the state assembly.

However, there are a few wealthy people against the change who can file lawsuits, pressure the community board, and donate to the mayor's office. That seems to have been enough to get the mayor to overturn his own DOT's plan[2]. The change itself isn't even a large-scale capital redesign of the street; it's entirely a plan using temporary repainting, movable barriers, and signal changes. It's exhausting living here.

Edit: If you live in New York and want to voice your support for the aforementioned road redesign, you can do so at https://www.safemcguinness.com

[1]:https://www.thecity.nyc/2023/6/13/23759703/keep-mcguinness-m... [2]:https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2023/07/05/mayor-yields-to-oppos...

Re: Uber, DoorDash Sue NYC to Stop Delivery Drivers from Getting a Minimum Wage

#100

it would force companies to pay workers for any time logged into the app, regardless of whether they were delivering or not Heh. Do these companies interview their gig workers? Could I collect some passive cash like this? What a soul sucking job interview that would actually be: What makes you a great delivery bicycle person and where do you see yourself in 5 years? So in other words, these companies would mandate th…

> The city is just being stupid on this one. Why? Don't hire delivery drivers of you don't need them.

These companies don’t provide a service. They provide a marketplace and collect fees. It’s no different than a brokerage.
Post reply on HN