Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Wayland on OpenBSD

xenocara.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 214 posts

Re: Wayland on OpenBSD

#111

Post by j16sdiz »

kaba0 wrote: post #78
didntcheck wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why is my window manager now also my display server? The (relatively simple) program that decides how to lay out my windows is clearly a separate concern to the (complex) program that actually interfaces with the GPU to render the screen Having to worry if your WM supports your GPU is like having to worry if your web browser supports your NIC

Gnome is not your window manager - it’s your display server. You can trivially install/write an extension to manage your windows differently and reuse everything gnome provides for example. A wm has always been trivial compared to a display manager, people just mistake one for the other.

I still think having multiple display server implementation is a mistake.

Qt/KDE is lagging behind and there are no easy way for them to catch up. Had the display server been a single implementation, Qt/KDE can focus on WM/Widget..

Re: Wayland on OpenBSD

#112

Post by sobkas »

bandrami wrote: post #97
kaba0 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Screenshots and sharing the screen Works for years. And global hotkeys are not trivial - no, that “everything listens to everything” that X did is not a proper solution.

It's worked fine for X for decades now, so simply claiming "it's not a solution" is kind of silly. I get that people pretend they are afraid some nefarious program is going to scrape their screen, but since I don't use closed source software this just isn't a real worry. Also do keep in mind this is about more than global hotkeys; there are several accessibility paradigms that simply don't and can't work on Wayland.

> It's worked fine for X for decades now, so simply claiming "it's not a solution" is kind of silly.

It never worked "fine", it was always a failure from security and usability perspective.

> I get that people pretend they are afraid some nefarious program is going to scrape their screen, but since I don't use closed source software this just isn't a real worry.

You know that apps have security vulnerabilities that can be exploited over the network? Screen grabbing, keyloggers, input injection(you have open root terminal? let's type some commands there). And more.

Re: Wayland on OpenBSD

#113

Post by mnd999 »

mst wrote: post #65
bitwize wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I had this working with multiple X11 servers 20 years ago. You had to hack around X11's shorttcomings. X11 does not support HiDPI or multiple DPI across multiple monitors without hacks and workarounds. Wayland does. That makes X a non-starter and Wayland the only choice for many users.

I love X11 dearly but I'm still happy using a single non-HiDPI screen because my normal working environment is basically 2x2 tiled 80x24 xterms (with multiple sets of them on different virtual screens) so the limitations just don't really affect me. Wayland has clearly chosen a set of trade-offs that are far superior for a lot of users and I fully expect anybody sticking with X11 to gradually become more and more of…

Of course use whatever works for you, but it sounds like sway would do what you want in a fairly painless way with wayland.

Re: Wayland on OpenBSD

#114

Post by pravus »

kaba0 wrote: post #72
hist_thr wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wayland is a replacement for X11 in the same way that a tricycle is a replacement for a tractor. They have thrown everything difficult out of the spec and only implemented the most trivial functionality around a security model which you must actively break to get actual work (like screen shots) done. That Wayland is 10 years old and still barely usable should tell you how far software developers have fallen in the la…

Yeah, please repeat the same bullshit for the umpteenth time. This happens under every goddamn wayland-related thread from people who have never ever touched anything graphics related with this typical cocky attitude - at this point this is just fake news. So if X is so great, why exactly have the very developers who worked on it all switched to Wayland? Like, if they could made something you believe is good, shouldn…

> Yeah, please repeat the same bullshit for the umpteenth time.

I'm currently streaming X11 over my LAN which is something I can't do with Wayland. Give me a fucking solution instead of telling me I'm doing it wrong.

Yes, I'm tired of seeing all this bullshit, too. I'll switch immediately when Wayland gives me want I need to make me productive. Until then, I'm absolutely sick of this cocky attitude.

Re: Wayland on OpenBSD

#115

Post by AJRF »

WJW wrote: post #96
AJRF wrote: post #74

I am an outside observer but in any discussion of Wayland I always see this article referenced: https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d... It seems like so much stuff is broken but the devs deny it is broken? And even with that situation - every major distro is making in roads to adopting it? Is that a fair characterisation or am I off the mark?

> every major distro is making in roads to adopting it? The question then becomes whether you believe every major distro is part of some giant conspiracy to kill X despite them being in competition with each other and having incentives to keep supporting X if users want it, or if X may indeed have severe problems that Wayland fixes. In practice most things run absolutely fine under both Wayland and X, but some progra…

I don't think it's that deep and never suggested a conspiracy.

Re: Wayland on OpenBSD

#116

Post by smorrebrod »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #110
hist_thr wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wayland is a replacement for X11 in the same way that a tricycle is a replacement for a tractor. They have thrown everything difficult out of the spec and only implemented the most trivial functionality around a security model which you must actively break to get actual work (like screen shots) done. That Wayland is 10 years old and still barely usable should tell you how far software developers have fallen in the la…

Can someone explain to me why Linux users seem so interested about having this long heated discussion about very low level piece of the OS infrastructure they actually have no expertise about and don’t really care about in a direct way? It’s a never ending source of amusement for me. If what you do is broken, just go see your OS provider and ask them to fix it. Why do you even care about how things are working under…

I think it is because Linux users tend to be more familiar with their software than users of other OSes. They chose it and they configured them, sometimes for hours.

Also they may have bent software to their liking and when you change something so important as the way images are rendered, then their particular workflow can go haywire.

I was in the community for less change (wayland, systemd, etc.) however now I tend to agree with you, I don't really care if I can still send emails, watch my DVDs and play some games.

Re: Wayland on OpenBSD

#117

Post by omeid2 »

pravus wrote: post #114
kaba0 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, please repeat the same bullshit for the umpteenth time. This happens under every goddamn wayland-related thread from people who have never ever touched anything graphics related with this typical cocky attitude - at this point this is just fake news. So if X is so great, why exactly have the very developers who worked on it all switched to Wayland? Like, if they could made something you believe is good, shouldn…

> Yeah, please repeat the same bullshit for the umpteenth time. I'm currently streaming X11 over my LAN which is something I can't do with Wayland. Give me a fucking solution instead of telling me I'm doing it wrong. Yes, I'm tired of seeing all this bullshit, too. I'll switch immediately when Wayland gives me want I need to make me productive. Until then, I'm absolutely sick of this cocky attitude.

RDP.

Re: Wayland on OpenBSD

#118

Post by anthk »

pravus wrote: post #114
kaba0 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, please repeat the same bullshit for the umpteenth time. This happens under every goddamn wayland-related thread from people who have never ever touched anything graphics related with this typical cocky attitude - at this point this is just fake news. So if X is so great, why exactly have the very developers who worked on it all switched to Wayland? Like, if they could made something you believe is good, shouldn…

> Yeah, please repeat the same bullshit for the umpteenth time. I'm currently streaming X11 over my LAN which is something I can't do with Wayland. Give me a fucking solution instead of telling me I'm doing it wrong. Yes, I'm tired of seeing all this bullshit, too. I'll switch immediately when Wayland gives me want I need to make me productive. Until then, I'm absolutely sick of this cocky attitude.

x2go/freenx, must better than plain X11.

Re: Wayland on OpenBSD

#119

Post by anthk »

yakubin wrote: post #55
zajio1am wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my experience, running X11 over a network worked very poorly. In my experience, when combined with SSH compression (ssh -XC) it works well enough that even running Firefox over Internet is usable (although with noticeable latency). Without compression, it is unusable (for Firefox) even on gigabit LAN.

In my experience running Firefox over X11 remotely is fine as long as you only use X11 and don’t wrap it in SSH, i.e. instead you expose your local X11 server port to the computer running Firefox and use the DISPLAY environment variable to point it at you local X11 server. Secure the connection with Wireguard and it’s fine. With SSH I’d see frame tearing all the time, regardless of compression options.

x2go/freenx it's must better than the old X11 protocol. OFC, if you use legacy systems, no problems using your old Irix machine or similar, but from modern *BSD's/GNU's, you can compile x2go in a breeze and get a much better support on rendering/speed and detaching.

Re: Wayland on OpenBSD

#120

Post by misterio7 »

pravus wrote: post #114
kaba0 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, please repeat the same bullshit for the umpteenth time. This happens under every goddamn wayland-related thread from people who have never ever touched anything graphics related with this typical cocky attitude - at this point this is just fake news. So if X is so great, why exactly have the very developers who worked on it all switched to Wayland? Like, if they could made something you believe is good, shouldn…

> Yeah, please repeat the same bullshit for the umpteenth time. I'm currently streaming X11 over my LAN which is something I can't do with Wayland. Give me a fucking solution instead of telling me I'm doing it wrong. Yes, I'm tired of seeing all this bullshit, too. I'll switch immediately when Wayland gives me want I need to make me productive. Until then, I'm absolutely sick of this cocky attitude.

Yes you can lol. I'm literally using WayVNC right now to work on my laptop from my desktop seamlessly
Post reply on HN