91–100 of 214 posts
I as a user haven't seen any reason to care about Wayland. And losing/dropping X11's network transparency seems rather surprising in a heavily networked world...
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It's a matter of funding. X11 development is not funded anymore whereas Wayland is heavily funded through proxies like Collabora or Igalia. It is unclear who are the originators of that money since those proxy orgs don't disclose who funds them. Since Wayland is a horribly complicated protocol that makes doing even the simplest tasks a major chore I would consider it sabotage. There are multiple billion+ dollar corps…
Oh, can I also get some of that sweet Wayland money? I’m sure that sub-3% desktop users is such a good market. Seriously, these conteo people really have trouble with rational thought — a goddamn chrome extension would be a bigger market.
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It not broken. The complains on the linked gist remind me complaining, how introducing protected memory broke applications. And you couldn't read or write i/o ports directly in our app anymore, you had to go through so-called kernel! So much bloat! So I put wayland is broken, because it doesn't allow what x11 did in the same way, ideally stomping on the others into the same category. For screenshots and capture, ther…
> For global shortcuts, there's an API in the making. This is kind of the problem, though. X11's model of 'everything can access everything' is obviously bad, but when wayland went with a more restrictive model they didn't provide a means for legitimate functionality like this. That's basically the origin of all the objection: things that worked on X11 don't work on wayland, because wayland's developers seem to be ve…
On the other hand, Rome wasn't built in a day either. You want to do it right, not quickly. The final solution will be there for decades, so it better be not drag on maintenance and further development. Especially one, where the requirements are not so clear (no, register random key combo by random client isn't going to be it).
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> I had this working with multiple X11 servers 20 years ago. People want to move windows between their screens. The lack of proper HiDPI support was really starting to become a problem when trying to run Linux on a laptop that isn't from the early 2000s. Fortunately, with wayland, it now seems mostly solved (at least in Gnome and KDE).
>People want to move windows between their screens. Yes, you use he fact x is a network server and run each screen as a separate client.
I know this is just a "hack it together" effort, but I wonder if it even makes sense to emulate/support libevdev and libinput on non-Linux OSes. While the Wayland protocol does reuse some libinput names/enums/etc., I don't believe there's anything in it that requires those particular implementations or APIs (that is, wl_pointer and wl_keyboard doesn't have to be populated by libinput). Maybe wlroots should have OpenB…
I think this is about preparing for a post X11 future. As Wayland continues to mature, classic X will attract fewer developer resources. I think it will eventually start to suffer benign neglect, and stop keeping up with new hardware.
I am an outside observer but in any discussion of Wayland I always see this article referenced: https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d... It seems like so much stuff is broken but the devs deny it is broken? And even with that situation - every major distro is making in roads to adopting it? Is that a fair characterisation or am I off the mark?
The question then becomes whether you believe every major distro is part of some giant conspiracy to kill X despite them being in competition with each other and having incentives to keep supporting X if users want it, or if X may indeed have severe problems that Wayland fixes.
In practice most things run absolutely fine under both Wayland and X, but some programs integrated tightly with X back in the day and for various reasons they cannot be rewritten because the devs have moved on, died, or simply because there is no budget for it. Users of those programs are quite upset that the X developers have collectively decided that putting extra effort in X is no longer worth it because its problems are effectively unfixable.
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Many, many people care about: - Screenshots and sharing the screen; - Global hotkeys; - Alternative / switchable / tunable keyboard layouts and input methods. Not fancy stuff, just, say, typing Latin, Cyrillic, Greek, and Japanese characters. All these things are is some sort of disarray under Wayland currently. Once they are properly implemented, I may consider switching. I want Wayland to succeed. But it's not enti…
> Screenshots and sharing the screen Works for years. And global hotkeys are not trivial - no, that “everything listens to everything” that X did is not a proper solution.
I get that people pretend they are afraid some nefarious program is going to scrape their screen, but since I don't use closed source software this just isn't a real worry.
Also do keep in mind this is about more than global hotkeys; there are several accessibility paradigms that simply don't and can't work on Wayland.
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If Wayland just existed on its own, nobody would have had a problem. The people pushing Wayland are not just its authors, but the distro devs, and the entire fuss is about Wayland being declared as the "future" by certain distro developers recently. This future has an issue - it only supports an opinionated subset of maybe 3/4 use cases of the "past". However broken the past was, replacing it with something that is s…
The existence of Wayland does nothing to detract from the existence of X or its users or developers. Nothing stops anybody from maintaining and developing X. You can download and install X for your Wayland distro. Not sure that anybody who "has a problem" has stepped up to really do much about it (most X development in the past few years is to support Xwayland), so it can't be that much of a problem.
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Wayland is a replacement for X11 in the same way that a tricycle is a replacement for a tractor. They have thrown everything difficult out of the spec and only implemented the most trivial functionality around a security model which you must actively break to get actual work (like screen shots) done. That Wayland is 10 years old and still barely usable should tell you how far software developers have fallen in the la…
When I'm on Gnome, and I select Gnome on X, my trackpad functions as one expects from Linux. When I'm on Wayland, it's like a macbook.
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Oh, can I also get some of that sweet Wayland money? I’m sure that sub-3% desktop users is such a good market. Seriously, these conteo people really have trouble with rational thought — a goddamn chrome extension would be a bigger market.
The money is paid for Wayland to make sure the FOSS desktop will stay sub-3%. You obviously don't understand the concept of sabotage. (And yes literally millions of dollars have been invested into Wayland)