I as a user haven't seen any reason to care about Wayland. And losing/dropping X11's network transparency seems rather surprising in a heavily networked world...
Wayland on OpenBSD
11–20 of 214 posts
Re: Wayland on OpenBSD
#12Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think this is about preparing for a post X11 future. As Wayland continues to mature, classic X will attract fewer developer resources. I think it will eventually start to suffer benign neglect, and stop keeping up with new hardware.
Wayland is a replacement for X11 in the same way that a tricycle is a replacement for a tractor. They have thrown everything difficult out of the spec and only implemented the most trivial functionality around a security model which you must actively break to get actual work (like screen shots) done. That Wayland is 10 years old and still barely usable should tell you how far software developers have fallen in the la…
I take screen shots just fine on my Wayland system without needing to jump through any security hoops.
None of the apps I use regularly need XWayland: they've all been ported to talk directly to the Wayland server.
I like Wayland.
Re: Wayland on OpenBSD
#13Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think this is about preparing for a post X11 future. As Wayland continues to mature, classic X will attract fewer developer resources. I think it will eventually start to suffer benign neglect, and stop keeping up with new hardware.
Wayland is a replacement for X11 in the same way that a tricycle is a replacement for a tractor. They have thrown everything difficult out of the spec and only implemented the most trivial functionality around a security model which you must actively break to get actual work (like screen shots) done. That Wayland is 10 years old and still barely usable should tell you how far software developers have fallen in the la…
This has been a talking point since wayland was announced. No one is buying it. Wayland is a very clear successor to X11 and OSs are going to choose one or the other at the end of the day.
Re: Wayland on OpenBSD
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wayland is a replacement for X11 in the same way that a tricycle is a replacement for a tractor. They have thrown everything difficult out of the spec and only implemented the most trivial functionality around a security model which you must actively break to get actual work (like screen shots) done. That Wayland is 10 years old and still barely usable should tell you how far software developers have fallen in the la…
The last full release is X11R7.7 from... 2012 If it's a tractor, it's quite an old one. Give me that new tricyle instead: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy8MZuAwNZc
That's because they modularized and stopped doing "katamari releases". The last X server release was in March 2023.
Re: Wayland on OpenBSD
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wayland is a replacement for X11 in the same way that a tricycle is a replacement for a tractor. They have thrown everything difficult out of the spec and only implemented the most trivial functionality around a security model which you must actively break to get actual work (like screen shots) done. That Wayland is 10 years old and still barely usable should tell you how far software developers have fallen in the la…
The last full release is X11R7.7 from... 2012 If it's a tractor, it's quite an old one. Give me that new tricyle instead: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy8MZuAwNZc
You refer to an old release model that was packing everything "X" into one thing. Nothing uses this release anymore.
After X11R7.7 the Xorg project changed its release model so that instead of making a single release that contained everything, it was split into separate packages each one having its own releases, versioning, etc and being independent from each other.
So depending on what you are looking for you'll get different results for the latest dates, though pretty much all of them would be more recent than 2012. For example when people mention "Xorg" they usually mean the standalone X server xorg-xserver. This had several releases this year with the last being xorg-server 21.1.8 released in March.
Re: Wayland on OpenBSD
#16Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think this is about preparing for a post X11 future. As Wayland continues to mature, classic X will attract fewer developer resources. I think it will eventually start to suffer benign neglect, and stop keeping up with new hardware.
Wayland is a replacement for X11 in the same way that a tricycle is a replacement for a tractor. They have thrown everything difficult out of the spec and only implemented the most trivial functionality around a security model which you must actively break to get actual work (like screen shots) done. That Wayland is 10 years old and still barely usable should tell you how far software developers have fallen in the la…
I totally agree. X11 is a tractor trying to be a supercar, a bus, an airplane, and a farm implement.
Can you separate just the parts that make X.org a display server from the parts that implement mouse input, keyboard language mapping, general-purpose IPC, 2D graphics drawing, font rendering, userspace graphics driver abstraction, joystick device handling, SPICE display driver, and three different 2D graphics acceleration APIs? Because then you might be able to make a comparison between X11 and Wayland.
Re: Wayland on OpenBSD
#17I as a user haven't seen any reason to care about Wayland. And losing/dropping X11's network transparency seems rather surprising in a heavily networked world...
In my experience, running X11 over a network worked very poorly.
There is significant overlap between former X11 developers and Wayland developers. They didn't drop it because they are incompetent which seems to be what your are implying. The people that decided to drop it are probably the people that know X11 the best.
Re: Wayland on OpenBSD
#18I as a user haven't seen any reason to care about Wayland. And losing/dropping X11's network transparency seems rather surprising in a heavily networked world...
The networking parts weren't used that much and due to the way modern apps work, I think the networked parts were essentially transferring images instead of graphics primitives. So it was essentially doing stuff that a remote desktop app does but with potentially more security issues (e.g. apps listening into keystrokes intended for other apps).
Re: Wayland on OpenBSD
#19I as a user haven't seen any reason to care about Wayland. And losing/dropping X11's network transparency seems rather surprising in a heavily networked world...
In my experience, running X11 over a network worked very poorly. There is significant overlap between former X11 developers and Wayland developers. They didn't drop it because they are incompetent which seems to be what your are implying. The people that decided to drop it are probably the people that know X11 the best.
It didn't work poorly back when X clients were actually using Xlib for drawing primitives performed by the display server.
It started working poorly when X clients started rendering everything locally in the client and simply pushing pixels to the display server.
Re: Wayland on OpenBSD
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wayland is a replacement for X11 in the same way that a tricycle is a replacement for a tractor. They have thrown everything difficult out of the spec and only implemented the most trivial functionality around a security model which you must actively break to get actual work (like screen shots) done. That Wayland is 10 years old and still barely usable should tell you how far software developers have fallen in the la…
This has been a talking point since wayland was announced. No one is buying it. Wayland is a very clear successor to X11 and OSs are going to choose one or the other at the end of the day.
Wayland is intended to be a successor, but remains behind in a nonzero number of cases, which is why most Linux distros do in fact ship both.