Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#361

Post by threeseed » Sun, Jul 09, 2023, 9:30 PM UTC

nomel wrote: post #275

threeseed wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They had many WWDC sessions covering 3D objects especially with the Unity integration [1] and their Reality Composer Pro [2] tool. Both were covered during the keynote. And if you look on Youtube there are countless videos of third party developers developing 3D apps. It's just that they are positioning the device as a spatial computer i.e. something you use to get real work done. And right now for 99% of people that…

I take their point as a problem of control. Picking up objects with hand tracking is, in my experience, much less deterministic, and much less useful, compared to picking them up with a button and haptics.

Everyone that has tried the Vision Pro has said the eye and hand tracking is flawless.

Definitely agree with haptics which many have mentioned is an issue.

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#362

Post by jldugger » Sun, Jul 09, 2023, 9:31 PM UTC

hghid wrote: post #197

Slightly tangential rant, but is anybody else becoming frustrated with the process of buying Apple products in Apple stores? For me, it started with the Apple Watch - I knew which one I wanted and was ready just to head down and buy one, but I was forced to sit through an entire "fitting" with patronising explanation on how to use the knob on the the side. Recently, I wanted to buy a new Phone. Again, I knew the one…

> if I didn't have an appointment, it would take half an hour or so to get somebody over.

It probably goes a long way to explain things if you know that Watch launched while Ahrendts was SVP of Retail at Apple. She came from Burberry, a luxury fashion retailer, and clearly had a vision for Apple Stores that was not compatible with the high throughput & demand they regularly get.

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#363

Post by dagmx » Sun, Jul 09, 2023, 9:32 PM UTC

smoldesu wrote: post #191

dagmx wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big win I think will be the App Store rather than just the Apple Store. the App Store will provide reducing the need to take the headset off to use general apps. When you use an oculus, if you need to do something like reply to a text, check an email or reply to someone on social media, you have to take off your headset or kill your current task and switch to virtual desktop. Having all your iOS apps on it, and b…

Having replied to a text, checked my emails and responded to people on HN all from my first-gen Oculus Quest, I'm not really sure what you're talking about here. Do you not find a web browser sufficient for those tasks? Is there something inherent to the Quest ecosystem that should be stopping me here?

1. Many people prefer apps over browser experiences.

2. Many commonly used apps don’t have a browser experiences with equivalent features. Take Instagram for example.

3. With the Quest , you can’t really multitask, except for the Quest Pro.

The Quest 1-3 are equivalent to game consoles in many ways. I can use a web browser on my PS4. It doesn’t mean it’s a full productivity system with multitasking.

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#364

Post by seanmcdirmid » Sun, Jul 09, 2023, 9:33 PM UTC

BoppreH wrote: post #175

I'm very confused by Apple's strategy. As an owner of the original HTC Vive headset, its word-of-mouth power was off the charts. It was a blast at parties, and many of my friends bought their own $700+ devices after trying it. Here's what won them over: - Being able to try it themselves with little preparation ("put this on your head, tighten it here, and click these buttons on the controller"). You could even use it…

It doesn’t sound like a gaming play, rather a productivity/media consumption play.

I really wish Meta or someone else would focus on fitness more. Augmented fitness (not normal gaming) seems to be an area ripe for viral adoption. Without any haptic feedback, VisionPro is less suitable than the Quest.

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#365

Post by hyperthesis » Sun, Jul 09, 2023, 9:33 PM UTC

nomel wrote: post #295

hyperthesis wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They tried it, but did they keep doing it? i.e. did it work in practice, for real-world work-flows? Was the ROI there, so allocating budget was a no-brainer? I think, if it did, it would have taken over by now. To me, the question is whether Apple has actually made this work.

It didn’t work because the pixels per degree isn’t enough, even with the Quest Pro, to show clear text. I still use it for coding, but it’s very far from ideal.

Apple claim text is crisp with VP. They also claim the resolution is similar to retina - but their stated pixel count and my guesstimates of usage distance suggest it's about half (in each dimension, so a quarter for area).

If they've got it crisp, how big a deal do feel that would be? For yourself, and for others who've been interested?

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#366

Post by dev_tty01 » Sun, Jul 09, 2023, 9:36 PM UTC

smoldesu wrote: post #171

giantrobot wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RIM and Palm sold 15-20 million units this year. If Apple is only projecting selling a million iPhones they're going to have a hard time catching up to Palm and RIM's install base.

Yep. You left out the part where Palm ate Apple's lunch for 15 years, to the point that Apple was forced to abandon the Newton platform in order to compete. Spot-on recounting otherwise though.

>Apple was forced to abandon the Newton platform in order to compete.

They cancelled Newton in order to compete? I don't understand the assertion.

Newton was cancelled by Jobs in 1997 for a number of reasons, but mainly because Apple had lost focus and was running out of money. Jobs cleaned house and only kept the products that could bring in larger profits more quickly.

Palm pilots were sold as complementary products to Macs or PCs and synced well with either one. I don't understand how that is eating Apple's lunch for 15 years since Apple was not shipping a competing product. Does Boeing eat Apple's lunch since Apple doesn't sell any airplanes?

Apple released iPod in 2001, again, not a competitor to Palm but it did provide a means for Apple to learn how to build handheld devices in very high volumes. Ignoring the Motorola ROKR, when Apple finally entered the smartphone market in 2007, Palm began to wither away.

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#367

Post by giancarlostoro » Sun, Jul 09, 2023, 9:41 PM UTC

hghid wrote: post #197

Slightly tangential rant, but is anybody else becoming frustrated with the process of buying Apple products in Apple stores? For me, it started with the Apple Watch - I knew which one I wanted and was ready just to head down and buy one, but I was forced to sit through an entire "fitting" with patronising explanation on how to use the knob on the the side. Recently, I wanted to buy a new Phone. Again, I knew the one…

Sounds like you want a self-checkout aisle for Apple Store products but its really just "IT Pro Line" or something, someone just charges you for what you want.

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#368

Post by georgespencer » Sun, Jul 09, 2023, 9:41 PM UTC

mytailorisrich wrote: post #287

georgespencer wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supply chain scuttlebutt is that the display technology is so constrained[^1] that Apple expects to only _manufacture_ 400,000 headsets next year. It's possible that this product will flop, but I can't see it being anything other than sold out everywhere for most of 2024. Heck, you can make a reasonable case for there only being 10k-30k SKUs in channel inventory at launch, and Apple has 275 retail locations which req…

It'll be by appointment so they can control the tap, say it is sold out, say there is a waiting list. Create a buzz. Cynically, a case in point is the display: it is so new and advanced that they have problems ramping production! Whether issues are real or not, I am sure that Apple's marketing team knows how to spin everything. They are famous for that and indeed one of the best.

> It'll be by appointment so they can control the tap, say it is sold out, say there is a waiting list. Create a buzz.

For near enough the last decade, all iPhone launches have been appointment only in-store, and Apple Watch was appointment only in-store for the first 4 months of its life.

> Cynically, a case in point is the display: it is so new and advanced that they have problems ramping production!

Imagine that at the end of next year, Apple has sold 400,000 devices, and tells us that only supply constraints are preventing them from selling many more. Which is the more plausible explanation:

1. As with nearly all novel/complex technologies when manufactured at large scale, the combined costs of tooling, the complexity and uncertainty of new manufacturing techniques, and the low yields which inevitably follow, have created a supply constraint for Vision Pro.

2. In the face of weak demand for Vision Pro, Apple and its partners choose to collude in a lie to customers and shareholders alike, claiming that Vision Pro is supply constrained when really nobody wants to buy it, thus… achieving… erm… uh… something?

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#369

Post by Thrymr » Sun, Jul 09, 2023, 9:44 PM UTC

CrazyStat wrote: post #231

akira2501 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My use case is being able to code with a giant screen anywhere I've tried this on other platforms. The device gets heavy and your eyes get hot and sweaty, and dealing with an extension cord running from your head to a battery pack just adds insult to the inconvenience. It's not fun and it was not a major boost to productivity. Plus.. for $3,500 I can just buy quite a few nice monitors.

> Plus.. for $3,500 I can just buy quite a few nice monitors. Yeah, but you can't use them in planes or hotel rooms very easily.

For hotel rooms, an HDMI adapter can usually get you hooked up to the TV. It's usually better for movies than work, though, and sometimes the TVs are so locked down you can't get it to read the HDMI in.

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#370

Post by gnicholas » Sun, Jul 09, 2023, 9:44 PM UTC

hghid wrote: post #197

Slightly tangential rant, but is anybody else becoming frustrated with the process of buying Apple products in Apple stores? For me, it started with the Apple Watch - I knew which one I wanted and was ready just to head down and buy one, but I was forced to sit through an entire "fitting" with patronising explanation on how to use the knob on the the side. Recently, I wanted to buy a new Phone. Again, I knew the one…

If you want to buy an iPhone with minimal interaction, just use the website or app, for in store pickup. Takes no time at all!

I will agree that it’s ridiculous for customers to have to wait for an appointment to buy a watch band, which I’ve seen. There were several employees standing around at the time, inexplicably.