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California needs real math education, not gimmicks

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Re: California needs real math education, not gimmicks

#311

Post by gnicholas »

oceanghost wrote: post #137

I am just confronting this now. My daughter is 6, and I'm trying to teach her math and reading. She's excelling at reading. The thing about math is, I have to teach her math the way the standards specify. The problem is… The common core math is just strange. I find it confusing, and I did a full tour at an engineering college. Math is a “procedure”. That's why programs like MatLab/MathCad can solve equations-- they j…

Khan Academy worked well for our kid, who started at that age. She worked through 1-2 grades per year and is now in their Algebra series. The main complaint I have is that there is no concept of 'practice' or 'drilling'. You just learn something and go straight to the quiz.

There are two problems with this. The first is that it doesn't get kids used to doing practice, which is critical for learning more advanced skills.

The second is that the quizzes use a lot of multiple choice (particularly in the younger grades, where kids are not assumed to be literate). Getting a handful of multiple choice questions correct is not a good indicator of having mastered a topic. Once I realized this, I told my kid she had to get all of the questions correct on the quiz 3 times in a row in order to move on.

Re: California needs real math education, not gimmicks

#312

Post by gnicholas »

bpodgursky wrote: post #78
avs733 wrote: post #5

As someone with a PhD in education, anytime someone uses the phrase “real education” as an attack on new approaches to teaching and learning, it’s a gigantic red flag that their argument is unserious.

I don't want to be rude about this, but education PhDs are a complete joke, and your argument would be stronger without mentioning as much.

It took me a while to realize that most people with "doctoral degrees in education" have EdDs, not PhDs. The people I know with the latter are quite bright; the people with the former are not necessarily.

One of the reasons for this is that schools typically pay teachers more if they have a masters or doctoral degree in education (but it doesn't matter what type of doctoral degree...so people flock to the less rigorous one).

Re: California needs real math education, not gimmicks

#313

Post by bleuchase »

fn-mote wrote: post #145
outlace wrote: post #44

I think we significantly overestimate how much school actually matters compared to family milieus. My wife and I highly value education, so regardless of when the school says children should learn algebra, I am already tutoring my 6 year old in basic algebra. If school did nothing other than be a daycare for my kids so we could work, they'd probably still be better educated than most kids going through public school…

This is a recipe for an ignorant underclass from which one can never escape. What is a bright kid supposed to do when their parents have a third grade education? Functioning public school is supposed to solve that problem.

> What is a bright kid supposed to do when their parents have a third grade education?

What do they do in the current system? Get stuck in a class that can’t move faster than the average student?

Re: California needs real math education, not gimmicks

#314

Post by WalterBright »

astrange wrote: post #179
WalterBright wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Soviets had a good public education system. No economic miracle. Japan's and Korea's economic miracles came from embracing free markets. The same thing happened in Vietnam and China. Free markets => prosperity, every time.

Korea's economic growth came from export discipline, a kind of industrial policy where the dictator threw businessmen in prison if they didn't manage to get overseas customers. (See How Asia Works.) That's not a free market, it's more like heading from communism towards free markets and then continuing over the other end of the horseshoe. It has the problem that everyone in the country is now working themselves to de…

Free markets are a spectrum, not an absolute. There's never been a perfect free market, just like there's never been a perfect apple.

Re: California needs real math education, not gimmicks

#315

Post by doalldrugs »

vacuity wrote: post #284
cpursley wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Careful, you’re not allowed to utter the “C” word here in relation to educational outcomes. (The word is “Culture”)

Your phrasing is crude but there is truth in it. In theory, African-American communities could be much better off with some drastic changes in culture, and it would be far more feasible for the government to pick up the slack and level the playing field (affordable quality education, abolish legacy admissions, etc.). Any amount of public school infrastructure and funding doesn't inherently get people to learn; studen…

I agree if only black people would change.

Re: California needs real math education, not gimmicks

#317

Post by WalterBright »

reverius42 wrote: post #204
WalterBright wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A proper proposal would be a lot more words than my little posting! It doesn't have to be perfect. It just has to be significantly better than the existing system, which has zero incentive for the teachers to get results.

> zero incentive for the teachers to get results Except, of course, wanting to educate -- which is ostensibly the reason they got into the profession in the first place. It probably wasn't for the pay.

Every job has its drudgery, no matter how much someone wants to have that job. I would also expect teachers who love to teach also want to teach those eager to learn. This is about teaching those who are not so interested in learning.

Also, you can't say teachers are poorly paid by neglecting they only work 8 months of the year, have a gold plated medical plan, and can retire with a lifetime very generous pension.

Re: California needs real math education, not gimmicks

#318

Post by throw9away6 »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #307
throw9away6 wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think the parents of the kids sent off to prison and daycare would be all to happy with that outcome. Usually schools that do that do it in a way that doesn’t draw too much attention. It doesn’t take many pissed off parents to tilt the scales in a local election.

It also makes a lot of parents happy. A lot of it comes down to political inertia and the dominance of reactionism. If you have a system with a dedicated school for violent and behaviorally challenged kids, there would be a much larger number of angry parents reacting to the idea of integrating those students with their children.

The happy parents won’t vote in significant enough numbers to offset unhappy ones. Pissed off people vote

Re: California needs real math education, not gimmicks

#319

Post by WalterBright »

bandrami wrote: post #263
WalterBright wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet piece work was paid for the piece, i.e. results, not time in the seat. I never wrote that all work was done in the office, sheesh. Besides, any organized labor project is going to need the labor on site. Piece work can only be done if no coordination or teamwork is needed. > the master craftsmen of the guild system began to assign their apprentices work on pieces which could be performed at home Sounds like spe…

> Capitalism is a heluva lot older than 1549. Huh? No, it's not. The first step may be learning what "capitalism" means. It's a specific economic system that developed in early modernity. It's not some "natural state of man" any more than feudalism was before it.

I provided a cite. Maybe have a look at it.

Re: California needs real math education, not gimmicks

#320

Post by WalterBright »

danaris wrote: post #262
WalterBright wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies wouldn't use it pervasively if it didn't work.

This is laughably optimistic. There are plenty of things companies do, pretty pervasively, that have been proven both scientifically and empirically to be detrimental.

I'm interested in hearing about your success running a company scientifically.
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