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Defecting from North Korea is now harder

nytimes.com

101–110 of 201 posts

Re: Defecting from North Korea is now harder

#101

[flagged]

North Korea was never a Soviet pet project. It's a Chinese buffer state that the Chinese don't even particularly like, but that they keep up because it's either that or have the US military, which they previously fought in the Korean War and which threatened to blow nukes up and which likely used biological weapons*, on their border. Both the USSR and China materially supported North Korea, but since the Sino-Soviet…

Building on this, North Korea is not even communist in the traditional, political sense of the word.

Most of modern NK’s philosophical underpinnings are based on Juche, a syncretic philosophy of traditional East Asian thought and that of the Kim dynasty. References to Marx, Stalin, Lenin, etc, have been excised from this doctrine. NK is a very hierarchical society, reflecting traditional Korean social order.

And, to the point you made, NK is the way it is because of the inextricable psychic damage of the Korean war. Neither the South-allied or North-allied forces acted honorably and it shows in the distrust to this day. NK’s Juche-thought reflects a certain degree of psychological damage, like that of a child who never had any adult to trust and grows to trust no one and rely on no one.

All this to say, I think reducing this to communism == bad is an incredibly reductive leap. North Korea did not begin as a communist project, it began as an anti-imperialist one (against Japan). It’s evolution has been a result of the intense paranoia associated with a massive, incredibly destructive war (imagine if a third of the towns in your country disappeared in a decade). This was a war of few prisoners between fellow countrymen. Imagine had the South pushed the yankees back and then militarized their entire border.

I, of course, would rather live in the West than NK. It’s just far more complicated than a rote line.

Re: Defecting from North Korea is now harder

#103
post #95

Paywall less link? Happy to pay $1 for article but absolutely won’t get into a subscription. Unsubscribing from NY times is a nightmare.

opening the article link with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynx_(web_browser) let me read it without the paywall. thought it's in a terminal so goodbye images or css

Re: Defecting from North Korea is now harder

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ms Park has gone from tragic and respected refugee, to fullout lunatic being caught in all kind of lies. I feel genuinely sad for her. Find the early interviews with her, without the plastic surgery (mentioning this because of timeline, not for judgement). You will see a different person.

WOW I had no idea - after the first interview, I didnt follow her in any regard... so I had no idea... But - I did have a secret thought when I first saw the interview on Rogan, that the reason she was largely given credence and airtime was her atractive looks... Based on your comment, she might be a demented sociopath along the same ilk as Elizabeth Holmes. (who thought getting pregnant would keep her out of prison)

> (who thought getting pregnant would keep her out of prison)

blatantly false and mysogenist!! sorry to say

Re: Defecting from North Korea is now harder

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WOW I had no idea - after the first interview, I didnt follow her in any regard... so I had no idea... But - I did have a secret thought when I first saw the interview on Rogan, that the reason she was largely given credence and airtime was her atractive looks... Based on your comment, she might be a demented sociopath along the same ilk as Elizabeth Holmes. (who thought getting pregnant would keep her out of prison)

> (who thought getting pregnant would keep her out of prison) blatantly false and mysogenist!! sorry to say

[flagged]

Re: Defecting from North Korea is now harder

#107
post #74

That was harrowing. There were a couple things I didn't understand: 1. What changed about China's surveillance systems or procedures to make them ~20x more effective at catching refugees in a couple years? 2. There's a bit about how North Korean refugees can apply for asylum in South Korea. I was under the impression (from Barbara Demick's book Nothing to Envy ) that all North Koreans are more or less granted asylum…

The South Korean constitution treats North Korea as an integral part of its territory, currently occupied by hostile forces. Therefore, anyone from North Korea is automatically, and in fact always has been, a citizen of South Korea. It's not just asylum, nor "de facto" citizenship. It's full citizenship, period. There's a mandatory program that every refugee must go through, not only to get them accustomed to South K…

Who are the occupiers of North Korea if there are no North Koreans?

edit: This was an honest question, I don't understand the reason for downvotes.

Re: Defecting from North Korea is now harder

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree but do we use mass tracking for stuff like tuberculosis and STDs? And agreed also that my point is probably more true for COVID than anything else. The scale of COVID is such that it automatically requires mass tracking to even consider contact tracing, but I guess my argument was that even then we should have evidence that such massive tracking improves contact tracing for very infectious viruses like COVID.…

I live in Québec. We never had mass tracking - this was FUD about the app, which did NOT share data... and that level of privacy protection is also why it was difficult to prove its positive impact. What we did have was public health which sometimes managed to call people after a positive result - to warn their contacts, so they don't infect others in turn. This is absolutely standard for public health for many illne…

I purposefully mentioned the tracking separately from the app. I was implying that the app being used for massive tracking (just that it was another example of ineffective contact tracing), and if it came off that way I just wasn't clear about what I meant.

This is the story I was referring to: https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/canadians-trips-to-liquor-stor...

And I totally agree about your last point. I'll add a more controversial opinion that our Public health authorities have been completely politicised here. Legault does not want to talk about COVID anymore so we don't. And when it was scoring points politically, they blatantly played with facts and timelines to make political decisions sound "based on science". Very very disappointed about how our public institutions acted during the crisis. For example, that the crazy, criminal, stuff that happened in CHSLDs early on was completely swept under the rug with no government official suffering from any meaningful consequences was... Eye opening.

Re: Defecting from North Korea is now harder

#110
I really wish that bill Clinton could have brokered a deal with china (right before NK got nukes) which would have done a two-pronged invasion with the assurances that China would control all of NK as a direct puppet state.

A Chinese direct puppet state would be far superior to the current situation.

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