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Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

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Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#201

This product has opened my eyes to "AR" glasses in general, but I think its way overkill for what I want to do.. My use case is being able to code with a giant screen anywhere (plane, hotel room, etc). I just want a few giant editor windows and terminals open. I don't care about gaming, AR gimmicks, etc. From what I understand, there are a number of sub $500 options. (xreal air, rokud air, TCL NXTWEAR, etc). However…

So what about this product opened your eyes that the previous 15 years of VR/AR did not? Just Apple's marketing power? Or is there something specific about this device that made it click for you?

From my perspective:

1. Eye tracking for interaction vs hand tracking. If the UX works out, the amount of precision that can be reached is just far higher with less effort - just seems to be an easier technical problem.

2. Resolution and lensing. Most VR headsets have fairly low quality fresnel lenses which cause distortion near the edges (basically - if you want to see something in good detail, you have to tilt your whole head to look at it), and in general the resolution is not good enough to see things that are 'far away' (those who play games like DCS have to use the 'binoculars' feature with headsets to accurately see targets). With a device like an HP Reverb, the resolution is probably close to good enough, the lensing is not - the Meta Quest Pro has a good enough lens, but not resolution. I'd expect the lensing on the Apple device to be top of market, and we know the resolution is ~2.5x more dense than the Meta Quest Pro - which should be closer to going from SD to HD TV rather than HD to 4k. Essentially, if you try to code on a Meta Quest Pro, the text looks a bit blurry. With the Vision Pro, it won't.

3. Custom face cushion + prescription lenses. Comfort is everything with these devices and nothing is worse than a headset putting pressure in the wrong places. It'll cost much more, but be totally worth it.

4. People claim common nausea when using VR. I've felt it too, but only on certain headsets. My money is other companies know what causes folks to feel bad, but have had to make technical tradeoffs which mean that nausea remains a problem. I'd put money on Apple having done serious research into 'what causes nausea when using headsets' which causes this to minimised on their headsets.

5. Software stack and usability. VR stacks are typically fairly clunky, usually Android derived, usually behaving a bit like a dodgy phone. iOS/MacOS are usually not most feature-ful, but a core usually works very very well. Will likely push bar a lot higher, change the shape of industry (e.g. samsungs are so good because of the iPhone competition).

Basically, having used some of these devices - the complaints I have with these right now, are the same things that Apple has real, technical solutions for. And the price isn't even _that_ high compared to other players in the market. Pimax Crystal is $1600 for what right now is a fairly buggy user experience. Their vapourware Pimax 12k is listed as starting at $2400 for the most basic model, though it's been in that state for well over a year.

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#202
post #197

Slightly tangential rant, but is anybody else becoming frustrated with the process of buying Apple products in Apple stores? For me, it started with the Apple Watch - I knew which one I wanted and was ready just to head down and buy one, but I was forced to sit through an entire "fitting" with patronising explanation on how to use the knob on the the side. Recently, I wanted to buy a new Phone. Again, I knew the one…

Can't you also buy these products online? I'm not surprised that the in-store experience has become such a high touch affair when the customer base that would have wanted less interaction have already self-selected out by not going to the store at all

That is true, but I'm sometimes I'm frankly far too impatient to wait for delivery.

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#203
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because shipping a new product at volume is child’s play. Sony still can’t manufacture enough PS5’s to keep them in stock. They’ve only sold 38 million in almost 3 years - the number of iPhones Apple sells in less than a quarter. And you’re citing a denial as proof?

That's not my opinion. That's what Apple Analysts say is happening and they even predicted it. They observe the supply chain very closely and get information from the floor level. Apple does it it again and again in a way that is not realistic and analysts point it out. When Apple seems to face less demand than expected they have 'problems'. Sony has real screw ups it hurts the company because demand is off the roof.…

Yes because “analysts” have been spot on when it came to Apple ever since in the 80s.

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#204
post #197

Slightly tangential rant, but is anybody else becoming frustrated with the process of buying Apple products in Apple stores? For me, it started with the Apple Watch - I knew which one I wanted and was ready just to head down and buy one, but I was forced to sit through an entire "fitting" with patronising explanation on how to use the knob on the the side. Recently, I wanted to buy a new Phone. Again, I knew the one…

I keep reading stories about experiences like yours, but no, never experienced that myself.

But then, it might be about my buying habits: the cheapest thing which suits my needs, and only when I actually need it rather than as soon as it comes out, so I'm almost never there at the sales peak for whatever it is I'm getting.

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#205
> unclear use cases ... a small group of enthusiasts

Apple's image announcement is just for future positioning: this really is a "Pro" device, for specific market segments and use-cases - niche. It's how apple won desktop publishing years ago.

Segment 1: creative professionals keep buying more and bigger screens. Vision Pro (VP) can eat that budget, and provide as many displays as you want. (The technology appeal is that a display must be high resolution everywhere - but VP only needs to be hi-res where you're looking, giving arbitrarily large "displays"). Apple carefully and specifically claims text is crisp. The engineering question is if Apple has actually done this: is it as good as a physical display? (or close enough)

Segment 2: creative professionals who make 3D objects: industrial designers, architects (but not yet engineers - they have different priorities). Also directors: cgi sets and set extensions have long been standard, and directors (and production designers etc) use an ipad to "see" the fully dressed cgi set, overlaid on the practical set. This is a better version of that. I can see James Cameron and Denis Villeneuve ordering any many as they can use - if it actually help. (aside: maybe for actors in rehearsal, but interferes with mocap).

Creative professional collaborate, hence Apple's huge efforts on the eyes being visible. A real question is will it be enough, for effective and natural communication, in a real-worlx work-flow situation? Will Jim be able to ordsr people around, or will he have to rip it off?

By announcing it after years and years of work, Apple shows they think they have enough of it, for it to be worthwhile for some people.

Provided they can get a genuine foothold, in actually making people more productive (real ROI, not jus enthusiast prosumers), then this has endless upside. If they can, users, usages and sales will grow fantastically for decades....if

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#206
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't you also buy these products online? I'm not surprised that the in-store experience has become such a high touch affair when the customer base that would have wanted less interaction have already self-selected out by not going to the store at all

That is true, but I'm sometimes I'm frankly far too impatient to wait for delivery.

you can buy the product online and choose store pickup. can be ready within hours since it’s from their inventory.

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>* Software differentiator* - The reasons I would not like to have one of these devices ; * Apple's closed moat * App store lock-in * 'DLC' model whereby not a single thing you do on this $3,500 device will be free - and no matter what app you choose, Apple takes 30% of whatever revenue stream that app wants... * The piss-poor apple fix-service market, and their shitty designs of the iphone which break so fn easily t…

While I sympathize with feeling disappointed in having to pay for apps for use with such an expensive headset, I believe that its price would have severely restricted the number of free apps available for it in the first place. Developers are going to want to recuperate their investment, and that'd remain true even if it were possible to install whatever one pleased on it. It's technically possible to develop on the…

Surprisingly the GP didn't include price of the device as a reason, but the 30% Apple cut/likely uplift in price that developers need to charge to recuperate development costs - which are far more significant than developer hardware costs.

A non-Apple device without the moat would be better. GP also didn't ask for free apps.

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#208
post #197

Slightly tangential rant, but is anybody else becoming frustrated with the process of buying Apple products in Apple stores? For me, it started with the Apple Watch - I knew which one I wanted and was ready just to head down and buy one, but I was forced to sit through an entire "fitting" with patronising explanation on how to use the knob on the the side. Recently, I wanted to buy a new Phone. Again, I knew the one…

You can use the online Apple Store then either have it delivered or pickup in person.

Or purchase from the hundreds of third party resellers who also sell them.

There are many people especially with the Apple Watch who aren't experts at technology and so having personalised service makes sense for them. And for you there are obviously many other options.

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#209
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't you also buy these products online? I'm not surprised that the in-store experience has become such a high touch affair when the customer base that would have wanted less interaction have already self-selected out by not going to the store at all

That is true, but I'm sometimes I'm frankly far too impatient to wait for delivery.

[deleted]

Re: Apple plans a slow, appointment-only rollout of Vision Pro

#210
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes you’re right. If only Apple knew how to generate buzz and convince people to pay more for its products than competitors…

Sure, Apple knows how to market. But with the iPhone, iPad, Mac and Watch, they also had an army of enthusiastic users who would show off these portable devices to all their friends and acquaintances. An ad hoc product demo given by someone you know is often worth more than thousands of dollars in traditional marketing. With the Vision Pro, it’s not obvious that users can give demos so easily. There’s custom face fit…

When Apple introduced the iPhone, they had lines of people waiting to buy one without ever trying it. The same was true with the iPad.

Apple sold 10 million iPhones in the first year. But 10 million was such a small number, that the chance of you seeing one in the wild wasn’t that common.

Apple is already seeding journalist with demos and it’s getting enough buzz from people in YouTube who were invited to use one and people like John Gruber and Marco Arment that if even a small percentage of their listeners/readers try it not to mention natural foot traffic in popular Apple Stores that demand will outpace supply.

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