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Fairphone 4 is coming to the US

arstechnica.com

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Re: Fairphone 4 is coming to the US

#51

Post by TheMode »

lawn wrote: post #42
TheMode wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not solving anything at all, what we need is hardware that doesn't need to have its software updated constantly. If you cannot have that, I wouldn't consider it ""sustainable"". There is nothing sustainable about depending on some company on the other side on the world to do the right thing continuously. Now sure, you could answer that they are doing it better than others and you may be perfectly right, but is…

> what we need is hardware that doesn't need to have its software updated constantly. That's just not possible if you value security at all.

It is indeed not possible if we keep making software the same way. But it doesn't have to be.

Re: Fairphone 4 is coming to the US

#52

Post by londons_explore »

phh wrote: post #36
TheMode wrote: post #14

Is the hardware really the bottleneck to sustainable device? The software seems more much important but nobody is tackling it. Having a phone with a new battery doesn't matter if I can't run the same apps as others.

As a software engineer who spend the vast majority of his time on (successfully) putting newer Android versions on the vast majority of older Android devices: Yes the hardware is the bottleneck. This pains me, because what I can do is software, not hardware, where I spend all of my time is software. An app just needs to target Android 7 to target 95%+ of users (so "only" 5% additional e-waste). And for app developers…

> USB-C port getting dust

The designers of USB-C should be ashamed of themselves for not doing more durability testing. Both cables and sockets are big pain points for most users.

Re: Fairphone 4 is coming to the US

#53

Post by denismi »

mrpopo wrote: post #16
TheMode wrote: post #14

Is the hardware really the bottleneck to sustainable device? The software seems more much important but nobody is tackling it. Having a phone with a new battery doesn't matter if I can't run the same apps as others.

They also provide 5-year software support. https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/997918043739... > For Fairphone 4, we guarantee software support until the end of 2026, this includes an upgrade to Android 12 and, later on, Android 13.

Doesn't that mean that buying the newest Fairphone in 2023 gets you 0 years of Android updates and 3 years of security updates? Compared to 4 years of each with a midrange Galaxy A?

Re: Fairphone 4 is coming to the US

#54

Post by londons_explore »

TheMode wrote: post #49
phh wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a software engineer who spend the vast majority of his time on (successfully) putting newer Android versions on the vast majority of older Android devices: Yes the hardware is the bottleneck. This pains me, because what I can do is software, not hardware, where I spend all of my time is software. An app just needs to target Android 7 to target 95%+ of users (so "only" 5% additional e-waste). And for app developers…

I fully understand your concerns, but still I believe that you aren't asking yourself the right question. Why do you need to port newer Android versions on older devices at all? It seems like the real problem to me. Why do running newer software must depend on a newer operating system? Do you believe that everything that is part of the android codebase is necessary to run a chat app? Part of the problem is that we se…

Google will no longer let you upload an app to the store that is compatible with old android.

Doing so is a privacy loophole, since newer OS's have stronger privacy protections.

Re: Fairphone 4 is coming to the US

#55

Post by pmontra »

phh wrote: post #36
TheMode wrote: post #14

Is the hardware really the bottleneck to sustainable device? The software seems more much important but nobody is tackling it. Having a phone with a new battery doesn't matter if I can't run the same apps as others.

As a software engineer who spend the vast majority of his time on (successfully) putting newer Android versions on the vast majority of older Android devices: Yes the hardware is the bottleneck. This pains me, because what I can do is software, not hardware, where I spend all of my time is software. An app just needs to target Android 7 to target 95%+ of users (so "only" 5% additional e-waste). And for app developers…

More reasons:

Phone is lost

Phone breaks beyond a reasonable cost of repair

Phone fills up with WhatsApp pictures and after months or years of deleting them they buy a new phone with double storage, which is already not enough.

Children grow, get the old phone of one of their parents and the parent buys a new one.

Re: Fairphone 4 is coming to the US

#56

Post by lawn »

TheMode wrote: post #51
lawn wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what we need is hardware that doesn't need to have its software updated constantly. That's just not possible if you value security at all.

It is indeed not possible if we keep making software the same way. But it doesn't have to be.

It's simply not possible to make bug-free software that's supposed to interact with the internet.

And even if it did, it would take so long to develop that it would never get released before it was already too old to be useful.

Re: Fairphone 4 is coming to the US

#57

Post by miduil »

cauch wrote: post #31
miduil wrote: post #12

I really wish Fairphone 4 had GrapheneOS support, but after almost 4 years of Fairphone 3 I decided to go with a Pixel instead. Too many hardware bugs with the FP3 that were never acknowledged by the vendor and unhappy customers with bricked FP4's that requires sending them back in. Also I would have hoped for them continuing the FP3 architecture, feels such a waste that they've now instead developed a much more expe…

> Too many hardware bugs with the FP3 that were never acknowledged by the vendor I have a FP3, and it has been my first and only Android smartphone. I now wonder if what I've experienced is the "normal Android experience" or if I would have experienced something different from another brand. I'm also avoiding / disabling Google stuffs (I'm using f-droid, ...). I was occasionally surprised to see how a lot of people a…

* Easily damaged by moisture (even though they've claimed certain IP ratings), due to the printed conductor inside the plastic layers with pin connectors

* Battery swelling after less than two years of operation (no way to source this battery locally since they've built a custom connector / redesigned an standard OEM battery)

* Overheating

* Touch screen glitches (they've resolved that after a year via software, support was super unhelpful with that problem)

* Wi-Fi 5 GHz broken/unreliable for many people

* Camera focus (not sure if FP3+ improved on that front)

* Broken fingerprint sensor (from the beginning, most common issue) and by broken I mean not functional at all

* self-disintegrating plastic parts (back and side covers), likely due to the fact they are using recycled plastic - they've changed the plastic chemistry with FP3+, for me the plastic became more and more brittle

-

In addition for me with software:

* charging LED can't be disabled, which is extremely bright when you're sleeping - community members shrugging this off with "you shouldn't use your phone in your bedroom anyway"

* screen brightness too bright / unreliable brightness sensor readings (they had several updates because it was so hard to tweak for them)

On the positive end:

Phone is quite durable, fell down on many occasions and because of it's plastic/design openness the battery falls out but screen never broke in bunch of occasions.

Edit: Formatting

Re: Fairphone 4 is coming to the US

#58

Post by cge »

As a note about repairability, ignoring various problems with the phone: while the FP4 does have more availability of parts from the manufacturer, is generally easier to repair, and is advertised as repairable, I found the Fairphone forums to be surprisingly and unexpectedly hostile to discussions of repair and repairability.

A significant portion of the forum userbase considers that Fairphone's primary focus is on fair trade, the treatment of workers, and the sourcing of raw materials. Regular posters, and highlighted users ("Fairphone Angels"), will often argue to users that the phone is not primarily meant to be repairable or longer-lasting than other phones. Concerns about outdated security updates and long-lasting, serious software problems with basic functionality often get responses about workers in phone manufacturing, and reminders that this is the point of the phone. This goes directly against Fairphone's own advertising, but it seems to be the general sense amongst users the company attaches their name to.

Coming from the Framework forums, this was astonishing and disappointing.

Re: Fairphone 4 is coming to the US

#59

Post by jokowueu »

jokoon wrote: post #46

So does it mean it's not possible to have popular apps like whatsapp or Tinder on this? I also wish it was just a phone with much less performance for a smaller price. I want something durable and repairable, not something fast, Wirth's law is very important to consider when consider software and hardware. I hope they will make such phone, one day, because I am not spending that much money for a phone. I bought a 150…

It has microG you can download the apps you want including the play store

Re: Fairphone 4 is coming to the US

#60

Post by TheMode »

lawn wrote: post #56
TheMode wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is indeed not possible if we keep making software the same way. But it doesn't have to be.

It's simply not possible to make bug-free software that's supposed to interact with the internet. And even if it did, it would take so long to develop that it would never get released before it was already too old to be useful.

This is because you are still assuming software being developed the same way. Could you give me an example of potential risk that is absolutely impossible to solve no matter how we change the entire computing process (from users running the app, to the app developer, and to the os developers)

I am not suggesting anything that would increase development time, in fact it is the opposite. Having to explicitly support multiple platforms is hell for both developers AND users

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