Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

solar.lowtechmagazine.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

401–410 of 551 posts

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#401

Post by kelnos »

noirbot wrote: post #349
chadash wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and companies claim they are doing so to build lighter laptops A framework 13" is 15.9mm thick and weighs 2.9 lbs. A macbook air M1 is 16.1mm thick and weights 2.8 lbs. So it's pretty darn close. I'm sure that thinner and lighter laptops exist, but yeah, the framework is pretty thin. And at a certain point, it stops mattering. Being thinner wouldn't really provide much utility at this point. The fact is that repair…

The tradeoff is that the Framework's battery life is garbage . I had laptops a decade ago with 2x the battery life. I'm lucky to get 3 hours of battery doing web browsing, and standby/hibernate on the Intel processor in it is so bad that it'll fully discharge in less than 12 hours doing literally nothing. I really want to like it, but my Framework is literally a worse user experience than my old 2016 Macbook Air and…

Yeah, I'm with you on the battery life. Though I don't understand where you get the 12-hour figure for a full discharge while in suspend. In that time period I lose about 20%. (If you're running Linux, try changing from 's2idle' to 'deep' sleep; not sure if it's possible to change this on Windows.)

The thermals are indeed terrible. My 12th-gen has this issue where it will sometimes overheat, and the firmware will lock all CPU cores at 400MHz (yes, MHz) for anywhere between 1 and 20 minutes, even though temperatures drop down to reasonable levels within seconds. Support has been completely unhelpful, and Framework doesn't even seem to be acknowledging the problem (which has been reported by quite a few people on their community forum).

The display is actually 3:2, which is just bonkers. At least 4:3 would be somewhat reasonable (if very mid-00s), but who has ever had a 3:2 display for anything? I kinda get why they decided against a widescreen display: the mainboard needs to be 'taller' to accommodate the RAM and storage slots and the spacing for the expansion ports, and a 16:9 or 16:10 screen would mean a 'shorter' chassis, which would lead us to a much smaller battery. But man, the screen is just weird.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#402

Post by theodric »

noirbot wrote: post #349
chadash wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and companies claim they are doing so to build lighter laptops A framework 13" is 15.9mm thick and weighs 2.9 lbs. A macbook air M1 is 16.1mm thick and weights 2.8 lbs. So it's pretty darn close. I'm sure that thinner and lighter laptops exist, but yeah, the framework is pretty thin. And at a certain point, it stops mattering. Being thinner wouldn't really provide much utility at this point. The fact is that repair…

The tradeoff is that the Framework's battery life is garbage . I had laptops a decade ago with 2x the battery life. I'm lucky to get 3 hours of battery doing web browsing, and standby/hibernate on the Intel processor in it is so bad that it'll fully discharge in less than 12 hours doing literally nothing. I really want to like it, but my Framework is literally a worse user experience than my old 2016 Macbook Air and…

The Framework 13's screen is not 4:3, it's 3:2 (2256x1504), just like a Microsoft Surface Pro 9 (and others). 3:2 is widescreen-ier than 4:3. I had a Surface from work and found no issues with using a 3:2 aspect ratio, so I'd be baffled if the user experience with the Framework differs. Most (all? I kinda stopped caring) iPads, incidentally, are 4:3.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#403

Post by kelnos »

scq wrote: post #309
prmph wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I swore off those Chinese manufacturers (Lenovo, Asus, Acer, etc) many years ago for similar reasons and haven't looked back. I just don't buy any products from them, laptops included. Surprised people are still having to learn the hard way that their products are crap.

Asus and Acer are Taiwanese, not Chinese, and none of them actually manufacture their own laptops in house, that is outsourced to manufacturing partners. Nearly all laptops on the market, regardless of brand, are manufactured by 6 Taiwanese companies: Quanta, Compal, Wistron, Inventec, Pegatron, and Foxconn. And yes, that includes Framework, who use Compal as their manufacturing partner.

To be fair, Wistron actually used to be the manufacturing division of Acer, until it was spun out ~25 years ago.

My first job out of college was at a US-based networking hardware company, and I was really surprised to learn that, even though most of the manufacturing & assembly is done in China, most of the electronics OEMs & ODMs are actually Taiwanese.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#404

Post by yokoprime »

NovaDudely wrote: post #391
LeFantome wrote: post #341

For a lot if what I do, the CPU on an older laptop is just fine. So, I too use really old laptops. That said, I am upgrading laptops that sold with 2 - 4 GB of RAM to 16 GB, or at least 8 GB. Often I am replacing on old HDD ( maybe as slow as 5400 RPM ) with a faster SSD. That SSD also juices the battery life. So, what I am using is a lot nicer than what the original owner had to deal with. Many laptops today will no…

Compute power has never been an issue for me, but I generally try to max out the RAM as much as my budget allows. This is why I still have a 2010 Macbook that is more than fine. Started with 4GB and was barely usable for heavier even when it came out, but dropping 16GB into and it has been smooth sailing for over a decade now. That said my daily runner is now T420 from (2011-ish) that came with 6GB of RAM that is in…

My main issue with especially lenovos from 2010-2015 is that the lcd panels are poor quality (dim, loads of bleed etc) everything else is really good

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#405

Post by DeathArrow »

YmiYugy wrote: post #78

I used to think that as long as all you needed to do was some web browsing that older or underspeced machines were fine. But in the last few years websites have become insanely resource intensive. Even using something as seemingly simple as Gmail is a frustrating experience on older laptops (speaking as someone who just upgraded from a 2017 dual core MacBook Pro). I also have a hard time believing that the same hardw…

>Even using something as seemingly simple as Gmail is a frustrating experience on older laptops

I don't think Gmail is simple. It runs a lot of Javascript in background.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#406

Post by theodric »

RuggedPineapple wrote: post #386

I've actually gone even farther. The last 4 laptops I've bought have all been 50 dollar used Chromebooks. Pull out the write-protect screw, flash new firmware and install linux. If it's got enough eMMC space Windows 10 LTSC runs too (depending on model) but I find xubuntu or Fedora XFCE plays nicer with 16 gigs of space. I have a beefier desktop for serious things, but in terms of everyday machines they work fantasti…

Interesting. Any models you'd care to recommend? I'm looking for a cheap, functional Linux laptop to replace my ThinkPad, and this option sounds promising.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#407

Post by AnonymousPlanet »

NovaDudely wrote: post #391
LeFantome wrote: post #341

For a lot if what I do, the CPU on an older laptop is just fine. So, I too use really old laptops. That said, I am upgrading laptops that sold with 2 - 4 GB of RAM to 16 GB, or at least 8 GB. Often I am replacing on old HDD ( maybe as slow as 5400 RPM ) with a faster SSD. That SSD also juices the battery life. So, what I am using is a lot nicer than what the original owner had to deal with. Many laptops today will no…

Compute power has never been an issue for me, but I generally try to max out the RAM as much as my budget allows. This is why I still have a 2010 Macbook that is more than fine. Started with 4GB and was barely usable for heavier even when it came out, but dropping 16GB into and it has been smooth sailing for over a decade now. That said my daily runner is now T420 from (2011-ish) that came with 6GB of RAM that is in…

I have a T420s that really struggles with video e.g. Youtube. Watching any h.245 via VLC or mplayer is impossible. Also the battery is in a bad state and I haven't been able to find a good replacement that isn't equally poor or worse right from the start. It actually has two batteries, one being in what used to be the cd tray. Still, usage time is 3 hours tops.

It had been my daily driver for years, running Linux, but I had to replace it with something newer.

How is your T420 doing with all this? Did you update the CPU? Does it still have the stock battery?

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#408

Post by layer8 »

grudg3 wrote: post #379
jwcooper wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what Framework set out to do (and is pulling it off so far...I'm typing this out on my 12th gen framework). They have an entire marketplace of replacement parts you can buy, including screens. They've even got battery upgrades (increased capacity), better speakers, new screen type (matte) that you can retrofit into your existing Framework. They support upgrading from their first gen laptop (admittedly they ar…

Yes, Frameworks are amazing on paper, and yet I still can't purchase one in New Zealand but I can easily purchase Apple hardware.

It’s straightforward to use a shipping forwarder, just adds a bit to the cost.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#409

Post by RuggedPineapple »

theodric wrote: post #406
RuggedPineapple wrote: post #386

I've actually gone even farther. The last 4 laptops I've bought have all been 50 dollar used Chromebooks. Pull out the write-protect screw, flash new firmware and install linux. If it's got enough eMMC space Windows 10 LTSC runs too (depending on model) but I find xubuntu or Fedora XFCE plays nicer with 16 gigs of space. I have a beefier desktop for serious things, but in terms of everyday machines they work fantasti…

Interesting. Any models you'd care to recommend? I'm looking for a cheap, functional Linux laptop to replace my ThinkPad, and this option sounds promising.

For the aftermarket firmware that allows non-ChromeOS OSs, theres a compatibility list at https://mrchromebox.tech/#devices that will show you if full UEFI firmware is available, and the write-protect method you need to disable.

I usually browse around Mercari looking for a system with specs that are acceptable, then check the list to see if its supported. I haven't paid more then around 50 bucks for any of them.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#410

Post by benj111 »

redroyal wrote: post #155
benj111 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you buy a new laptop every year? What do you do with your old one? Throw it away? Or sell it? If you're selling it who do you think is buying it? You do realise most people don't need the fastest processor, an 18 hour battery life, thunderbolt 4 or WiFi 6 And better screens and lighter weight are relative. If I upgrade my 10 year old laptop to a 5 year old laptop I'm still realising those gains. Next year a better…

Well in 5 years I expect most dev work will be done in VR collaboratively with remote teams, w multiple virtual screens and AI assistance. Another world. Laptops and cell phones will be gathering dust with the desktops. Things change fast. Remember the world without the iPhone? That was 16 years ago. So when you talk about using a 5 year old laptop to save a few dollars it just doesn’t make sense. You can listen to m…

>this machine is your everything

Philosophically I disagree.

Further I spend more time in my bed, but I didn't spend anywhere near that when I got it, and I haven't replaced that in 10 years.

>5 years I expect most dev work will be done in VR collaboratively with remote teams

Really?

You know that people lives are different to yours. I'd guess that most people on HN aren't employed as Devs, myself included. Of those that are Devs I'd guess that most aren't using the latest and greatest processes and languages.

There's still production COBOL code, do you think those Devs will be moving to VR anytime soon. And that's assuming your prediction is correct, which I highly, highly doubt.

Post reply on HN