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The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

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Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#131

Post by rsynnott »

LoganDark wrote: post #111
deng wrote: post #106

People forget that it is not just the processor that consumes power. The reason the new MacBooks are so efficient is not just because they are ARM-based, it is also because they have incredibly energy efficient screens, WiFi, RAM, SSDs, etc. They can achieve this through their sophisticated manufacturing process, with highly integrated components directly soldered onto the board, a fact that is widely (and correctly)…

Is it really that hard to design sockets that don't waste such a significant amount of energy? Honest question. Do you really save so much by soldering something without any type of ribbon, socket, or other removable connector in between?

I'm drawing a blank on what it was called now, but way back in the day, in response to the Intel Apple laptops having far better battery life than apparently equivalent Wintel machines, Intel launched a programme to improve laptop platforms. IIRC, at the time, some laptops had up to about 10W worth of inefficient/non-essential (or completely unusable; controllers for parallel ports but no actual parallel ports for instance) chippery on their motherboards.

I'd assume all the low-hanging fruit is _long_ gone there, though.

Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#132

Post by rsynnott »

hospitalJail wrote: post #65

Its 2023 and I still don't understand the point of CPU speeds, even as a dev doing both single and multithreading. AI is continuing to put priority on GPUs. In the worst case, I wait an extra fraction of a second with a bad CPU. With a bad GPU, you are basically excluded from the latest technology. I'm sure ARM really wants to advertise that CPU is relevant, but it continues to be nearly irrelevant when you buy somet…

After some years of a 15" 2016 MacBook Pro (perhaps the worst laptop Apple ever made) at work, the M1 Max that replaced it was a revelation. I have no use for a fast GPU (in fact one of my pet peeves about the 2016 MBP was that they eliminated the no-discrete-GPU option that prior 15"s had, resulting in far worse thermals for no gains for many users). Your milage may, of course, vary, but some of us appreciate a fast CPU and have no use for a fast GPU (the M1 Max is, I gather, tolerably fast in this department, but the poor thing never gets to do anything other than displaying GUIs in my case...)

RE ML stuff, do people actually do the heavy lifting for that _on laptops_ much?

Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#133

Post by rsynnott »

dantaro wrote: post #78
soulbadguy wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May i ask why ? I don't use Macs because my day to day requires X86 and linux. But pounds for pounds if someone doesn't mind MacOs. The new Mx series of macs is just a better value than most high-end laptop theses days

Hey there, author here, for me personally it's about the windowing and file explorer. I spent 6 months trying to get used to it at a job, and even bought a M1 Macbook Pro last year to try, but I just couldn't find any combination of plugins and programs that made it feel right. I know, it's not a great reason, and I have no hate for anyone who yums my yuck, but at the end of the day it's what stops me from using MacO…

> I know, it's not a great reason,

Seems like a fairly valid reason. I used Windows for the first time since early XP recently (in a VM; wanted to check that an interview question was doable in it without undue pain). I was just astonished at how bad it felt, and couldn't wait to shut down the VM. It's unsurprising that others have the same thing in the other direction.

Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#134

Post by hospitalJail »

oneplane wrote: post #123
hospitalJail wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I need to do everything locally. Air gapped computer with confidential stuff.

I that case your situation is likely irrelevant for the masses. It also still matters what performance bracket you're targeting.

Maybe.

I can picture wanting to do nsfw stuff locally...

But also this is a fortune 100 company that has the airgapped computer with the confidential stuff. Its big bucks.

Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#135

Post by hospitalJail »

rsynnott wrote: post #132
hospitalJail wrote: post #65

Its 2023 and I still don't understand the point of CPU speeds, even as a dev doing both single and multithreading. AI is continuing to put priority on GPUs. In the worst case, I wait an extra fraction of a second with a bad CPU. With a bad GPU, you are basically excluded from the latest technology. I'm sure ARM really wants to advertise that CPU is relevant, but it continues to be nearly irrelevant when you buy somet…

After some years of a 15" 2016 MacBook Pro (perhaps the worst laptop Apple ever made) at work, the M1 Max that replaced it was a revelation. I have no use for a fast GPU (in fact one of my pet peeves about the 2016 MBP was that they eliminated the no-discrete-GPU option that prior 15"s had, resulting in far worse thermals for no gains for many users). Your milage may, of course, vary, but some of us appreciate a fast…

>the poor thing never gets to do anything other than displaying GUIs in my case...

This is kind of my point.

What actual CPU stuff is done in 2023?

Its why Apple's marketing focuses so much on battery life. For a year, they won a competition that no one had cared to win.

Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#136

Post by hospitalJail »

soulbadguy wrote: post #100
hospitalJail wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The new Mx series of macs is just a better value than most high-end laptop theses days ? I just recently bought a laptop and when I was comparing benchmarks, I didn't see Apple anywhere near the top of the list for CPU single or multithreaded. Not that I remotely care about CPU speeds, my number 1 focus was VRAM. Made it an easy decision since you basically pick something with Nvidia and high VRAM.

> I didn't see Apple anywhere near the top of the list for CPU single or multithreaded Probably wasn't normalized as perf per watt.

>Probably wasn't normalized as perf per watt.

Of course, that is a marketing metric, not something to genuinely care.

Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#137

Post by ktm5j »

jklinger410 wrote: post #48
nirui wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same where wondering if it performs the same/better under Linux. I imagine the battery life could be better under Linux based on my experience with Windows 11 on my own laptop, I mean, the fans don't even spin up that often under Linux unlike the near constant fan chorus Windows gives me. Also, a computer without a single fan so I can comfortably use it on my bed? With possibility to replace it's SSD? It sounded a lo…

> imagine the battery life could be better under Linux based on my experience with Windows 11 on my own laptop God, I have experienced the exact opposite with Linux on laptops. Battery management is so bad I am considering moving to a Macbook.

What DE/distro do you use? I'm actually super impressed with the battery life I get with Fedora/KDE on my ASUS Ryzen laptop.

Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#138

Post by kalleboo »

callalex wrote: post #104
rhamzeh wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on my experience, I can tell you the grass is not greener on the other side. Forced to use Mac for work, the previous Macbook Pro would lose charge _while plugged in_! The battery goes empty, it shuts off and I wait for it to recharge while off. They recently changed mine to an M1. Battery is much better than the previous generation and could be good, so long as you're not using it for anything. As soon as the…

Sounds to me like you’re using a low wattage charger that was not designed to be used with your pro-grade machine.

Or a low-wattage cable (easy to do with USB-C as cables typically aren't marked with their capabilities)

Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#139

Post by hospitalJail »

solarkraft wrote: post #76
hospitalJail wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile I've had my laptops plugged in for 99.999% of their life. Sometimes I'll unplug to bring it to an overnight christmas party or camping to watch a movie at night. Then I'll probably end up plugging it in when I arrive. Just remembered, one time I brought my laptop to a real estate meeting, and it was so boring I did work during it. But the meeting was over in an hour. I'm sure some people like having their c…

My laptop is plugged in 95% of the time. In the 5% of cases not having to worry about plugging in is great.

Even then, I've never ran out of battery.

Do we really need more than 6 hours of never being plugged in?

I've heard of a usecase, bus trips with buses that don't have 120V outlets... Its pretty niche.

Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#140

Post by piaste »

> There are some Asus laptops that seem like they'd fit the bill, but they're just so clunky and large, which gets in the way of the portable dream.

Does anyone know which laptops Devin is referring to?

I'm one of those odd guys who love big laptops (I've used 17” models for over a decade now) and I don't care about the weight at all. But I'd love it if I could trade some of those models' performance for more battery life (a reliable 8 hours would be sufficient), and they're never designed for that.

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