I stopped buying new laptops (2020) • Hacker News Board

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#241

Post by the-grump » Sat, Jul 08, 2023, 8:59 PM UTC

CraigJPerry wrote: post #162

Atotalnoob wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if framework can let you reuse the "shell" for 2-3 upgrade cycles until they have to change the motherboard, that's a lot better than having to buy an entire new laptop. It's not about keeping the same form factor forever, that's unrealistic. It's about reducing the amount of stuff you have to buy for each upgrade. Opening and closing stuff is realistic, if it's easy. I've opened and upgraded various components of…

>> So if framework can let you reuse the "shell" for 2-3 upgrade cycles I badly want the framework laptop idea to succeed - the idea of re-using your old laptop battery as a battery bank when you upgrade, that's just brilliant. The idea of taking your old motherboard and sticking it in a slim case that bolts to the vesa mount on the back of your monitor, beautiful. However, it's far more expensive that just buying a…

Too bad Apple's hardware doesn't play nice with Linux.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#242

Post by andrekandre » Sat, Jul 08, 2023, 8:59 PM UTC

2h wrote: post #237

andrekandre wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this is why Apple is a trillion dollar company. because people mindlessly buy any new thing they put out, regardless if it makes sense or not. not to defend apple or anything but whats the complaint here?... that apple is really good at capitalism?

> whats the complaint here Its dont mindlessly buy any new thing Apple puts out

why? whats wrong with people buying things that they like?

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#243

Post by Karsteski » Sat, Jul 08, 2023, 8:59 PM UTC

dbg31415 wrote: post #25

I mean... you can save a few bucks on a laptop. Sure. But the real cost is the downtime. If I have an employee that I value at $100,000 a year, working 1800 hours, that's $55 / hour. Assuming their work doesn't impact anyone else, it would be silly for me to take that employee out of commission for any expense that costs less than $440 / day. Way smarter for me to buy a new laptop, which is less likely to have any is…

Most people in tech definitely do not make over $100k US, what an American centric POV.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#244

Post by KronisLV » Sat, Jul 08, 2023, 9:01 PM UTC

neuralRiot wrote: post #198

Atotalnoob wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if framework can let you reuse the "shell" for 2-3 upgrade cycles until they have to change the motherboard, that's a lot better than having to buy an entire new laptop. It's not about keeping the same form factor forever, that's unrealistic. It's about reducing the amount of stuff you have to buy for each upgrade. Opening and closing stuff is realistic, if it's easy. I've opened and upgraded various components of…

Upgradeable hardware sounds great in theory but doesn’t work in real life, just like PCs you configure it once and it will be that HW until it is obsolete for your purpose.

> Upgradeable hardware sounds great in theory but doesn’t work in real life, just like PCs you configure it once and it will be that HW until it is obsolete for your purpose.

This isn't really the case for many folks out there.

If I get a better CPU, the previous one might go to one of my homelab servers (consumer hardware). The same goes for motherboards, that's how I got a second homelab server (bought a mobo with more RAM slots for main PC). I occasionally swap out drives and now my homelab servers also have SSDs like my desktop. Once I bought faster RAM for my desktop, I moved some of the old sticks to the servers.

You can easily replace homelab servers with a family PC or another machine that you have (or just spare parts in case something fails) in the example and it will still make sense.

Actually a lot of that hardware is also second hand - since it was easier to just get affordable first gen Ryzens for my desktop, instead of saving up money for a while. Those homelab servers both also use 200GEs because of the low TDP, which others might consider obsolete, but which have a second life here.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#245

Post by NikolaNovak » Sat, Jul 08, 2023, 9:01 PM UTC

shortrounddev2 wrote: post #233

rpcope1 wrote: post #12

> Most of the 160-200 million laptops sold each year are replacement purchases. The average laptop is replaced every 3 years (in business) to five years (elsewhere). 3 My 5.7 years per laptop experience is not exceptional. This is one of the many aspects I don't like about how laptops are designed today. Even with OEM desktops like my Dell Precision T1700, it's still serviceable and fixable today without a whole lot…

My T420 is still running strong 12 years later. I don't use it for much since I'm not on Linux anymore, but I occasionally open it up and play with it. I'm using a Dell Inspiron now and I'm hoping it lasts a while.

Yup. I have two working t420s (t420s is thinner than t420 and I think puts it in the realm of "acceptable" in modern standards. T420 I find is mostly a stationary laptop). They run upgraded ssd drives and ram.

I also recently stocked up on 3 used t480 as it's the last generation with easily removable battery as well as drive and memory. Those should last me a while! My primary daily driver is the 6 year old t25 - basically t470 but with good keyboard.

But I think... That's kinda the point. These laptops were upgradeable but modern ones are not. T490 and onward don't have external replaceable battery. A lot of modern thinkpads have soldered ram. And none of them have the elegance of ultrabay of yore.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#246

Post by redroyal » Sat, Jul 08, 2023, 9:02 PM UTC

liamN wrote: post #222

redroyal wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That issue can’t be solved by reusing laptops or sorting cans from cardboard. The argument that every little helps is totally flawed. Fantasy, make believe. The other 8 billion people simply don’t care and why would they? 50 years from now they’ll all be dead. Since when did people care about future generations and the good of humanity? It’s a very recent western fashion. The only thing that truly motivated the vast…

You're falling prey to the fallacy that just because 1 person's actions can't make a world of difference on their own, those actions aren't worth taking. By your logic, you may as well not vote either, because everyone else is voting. Every little bit DOES count, because the more people believe they can make a difference, the more of a difference they will make collectively. You have to lead by example. Rolling over…

I mean you’ve got to appreciate the scale of the problem here and be pragmatic. The danger of recycling is it gives the illusion of progress, but I’m not against it otherwise. Philosophically you might be correct but voting blue in a non swing red state is completely meaningless

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#247

Post by rozenmd » Sat, Jul 08, 2023, 9:07 PM UTC

cache_hit wrote: post #128

rozenmd wrote: post #7

ThinkPads are absolutely magic. Here's one I built for travelling: https://maxrozen.com/replacing-my-macbook-m1-with-thinkpad-t...

They really are. For example, I have a P53s (basically a renamed T590) that will randomly clock the i7 CPU it came with down to 400MHz under active use for extended periods of time, and I can't run anything that actually uses the cores on the i7 for more than a minute without hitting the 95 degree PROCHOT. The dedicated GPU also will clock itself down to 100MHz and shift the termal throttling range from 75 degrees to…

Have you changed your thermal paste?

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#248

Post by soulbadguy » Sat, Jul 08, 2023, 9:09 PM UTC

ido wrote: post #192

soulbadguy wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still doesn't answer my question, not sure why people feel the need to jump into this... maybe something wrong the tone on my answer. But while i have you here... Which dell xps (year/model/spec) was it and which M1 mac (year/model/spec) was it.

How does this not answer your question? If the XPS was more expensive even before adjusting to inflation, than the answer is no: the macbook was not the most expensive computer I ever bought (both adjusting and not-adjusting to inflation). The Dell was XPS 13 (9350) bought Janaury 2016 for €2,105. The Macbook is M1 Macbook Air (the highest end model of which), bought June 2021 for €1,598. In both cases I wasn't tryin…

> How does this not answer your question?

Because i was interested in OP point of view, not someone else...

> The Dell was XPS 13 (9350) bought Janaury 2016 for €2,105. The Macbook is M1 Macbook Air (the highest end model of which), bought June 2021 for €1,598.

You are comparing the experiences of two laptops 5 years apart ...

> The latter is radically higher performance while also being much better in many other ways (build quality, battery life, reliability, etc). I promise you I'm not getting a commission from Apple, in fact there's a lot of stuff they do that I deeply dislike :)

I agree, i have nothing apple hardware. I was just curious what kind of machine OP had before his mackbook air. I also recommend macbook air to anyone who can use macos

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#249

Post by dejobaan » Sat, Jul 08, 2023, 9:10 PM UTC

ido wrote: post #208

jamespo wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess your superfast laptop wasn't very good at rendering the webpage of the article

Are we not allowed to use the article as a springboard for conversation? Am I obligated to only restrict myself to what the author wanted to talk about without expanding the realm of discussion with the people on HN?

I feel that, for instance, game developers would fall into this category.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#250

Post by Sakos » Sat, Jul 08, 2023, 9:13 PM UTC

go_prodev wrote: post #45

Casteil wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Err, mobility? M1 / M2 Pro MBPs pack a serious punch... and they don't have to sacrifice battery life to do so - they smoke virtually all other laptops in terms of battery life.

Battery life gets mentioned quite often with laptops, but is it still really that important? I run my business from an X1 Carbon, but it's more about portability than battery life. Trains, planes, Starbucks all have power available so it's constantly plugged in and I can't remember the last time I used it on battery for more than an hour.

It's pretty much impossible to find an outlet in Germany in public. Certain types of trains have them, but many don't. Like, the only guaranteed outlets I can rely on are at home or at work, and even at work, I'm constantly moving between meetings and simply don't want to futz around with cables all day. I never have to worry about charging my laptop between meetings. That kind of convenience is hard to beat.

Battery life matters. Maybe not to you, but it matters.