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When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

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Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#271

Post by gameman144 »

techwizrd wrote: post #268

I can see why this would be useful, but we already spend a lot of time chasing down data quality issues in AI/ML models and statistics as-is. We may be requesting permissions to workaround/correct GPS accuracy issues, comply with local regulations, or turn on a feature flag. For example, if you're on your home network I should hit HomeAssistant via a different route than if you're away from home. Or maybe local regul…

It sounds like the assertion here is that the data is used for reasonable purposes and improves the user experience. That's likely very true.

If I prioritize privacy over that better user experience, though, that should absolutely be something I'm allowed to do.

I might not want to give a stranger at a bar my real phone number, so I give them a fake one. Maybe this leads to a worse experience than if I just said "no thanks", but I really value the fact that I'm allowed to do that.

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#273

Post by Dylan16807 »

floomk wrote: post #211
ryandrake wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good question! We actually asked Apple exactly this when appealing the AppStore de-listing. How come others can require an account and we can't? What was it about our app that made us have to spend the engineering effort to add a guest login (this was a disingenuous argument that I advised against, since we deliberately spent engineering effort to require the login)? Their response, not the exact wording since it was…

> We're reviewing your app, not theirs, so what they can do is irrelevant rules for thee but not for me Apple has never been fair with its review, sadly. > I would expect Apple's response to be "change it back". Companies should not have to bend over to apple's whims just to get their software in end user hands. Hopefully upcoming EU regulation will reign apple's overreach in a bit.

> rules for thee but not for me

"not for me" isn't what's happening in a comparison between two third party apps.

> Companies should not have to bend over to apple's whims just to get their software in end user hands. Hopefully upcoming EU regulation will reign apple's overreach in a bit.

Maybe in general, but I think a rule against requiring unnecessary accounts is a good rule. The EU should consider making that a regulation.

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#274

Post by grishka »

NekkoDroid wrote: post #264
plorkyeran wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you can't choose to only install apps exclusively from the app store on macOS because the macOS app store is a barren wasteland. The MAS makes it very clear that the only reason app developers put up with the iOS app store restrictions is because they have no choice.

Google Play Store begs to differ

Google Play's rules on things like UGC are much more relaxed to begin with.

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#275

Post by scarface_74 »

grishka wrote: post #226
wruza wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you and me have both worlds to choose from (not gonna reiterate pros/cons hundredth time). You are living in yours, but I have to lose mine. By me I mean all those people who chose Apple for what it is and ignore Android for what it is, with regards to what we’re talking about. You have no real problem, only intrusive ideology. Please relax and leave us alone. We’ll speak for ourselves when we feel wronged.

As an app developer, I do have a very real problem. I don't want Apple to impose their agenda on me and act like they own the relationship between me and my users. In particular, Apple should have no opinion on what kind of UGC my app contains if it's rated 18+. Apple should also stop protecting their own products by rejecting apps that cut into their market. But of course, Apple would do none of these things volunta…

So which app does Apple reject that cuts into “their market”?

Office apps (iWork)? There is Office 365, GSuite

Storage providers (iCloud)? All third party storage providers show up next to iCloud when you use the file dialog box - DropBox, Box, Google Drive, One Drive

Streaming apps (AppleTV)? There are dozens and when you search for a TV show or movie, the AppleTV app will tell you which subscribe services have it?

Streaming music (Apple Music)? Spotify, Tidal and Pandora are all on the App Store?

Etc…

> do have a very real problem. I don't want Apple to impose their agenda on me and act like they own the relationship between me and my users

Guess what? I as an end user don’t want to have a “relationship” with you. When I pay for an app, I don’t want to give every Tom, Dick and Harry my credit card information. When I get ready to cancel my subscription, I don’t want to have to deal with you.

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#276

Post by charcircuit »

aftbit wrote: post #34
charcircuit wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>region-locked apps There is no such thing. The respective app stores allow you to distribute apps in select regions. This is an important feature for app stores because an app may not be a good experience in all countries. The app may not be localized to all languages, there may not be content moderators for those languages, those countries have a multitude of laws that you need to comply with, your app may include…

>This is a feature requested app developers due to the legal requirements when licensing content such as movies. Movie studios don't want people streaming or recording their movies so app platforms need a way to surely show this content. Of course, but if our industry had any chutzpah, we would have simply said "no, that's impossible" and continued to distribute operating systems where the user has ultimate control o…

>no, that's impossible

When you are a platform owner it is important that you evaluate the needs of all stakeholders and not just the needs of the users of the platforms. Telling app developers that you are not willing to compromise is not a great way to convince them to create apps for your platform. Also as a platform you want your platform to appear as a safe place for content owners to have their content on. You will have trouble convincing content owners that your platform is safe if it's security is much worse than everyone else's

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#277

Post by charcircuit »

firefoxd wrote: post #66
charcircuit wrote: post #19

This will just make app developers angry at your platform. If this is just some hack users are doing apps will increasingly use attestation to make sure you are not feeding them fake data. Apps want to be able to give users a good user experience and if they are given fake data users will get angry that the developer's app is broken and leave 1 star reviews. Denying permissions and letting apps know something is deni…

This doesn't make sense. If the dev asks permission that creates good experience, the user is incentivized to give real data. Example, gps is required to navigate or find near by service. The user will happily provide. But if you require gps to make a post, the user does not benefit from it. Unless they have an incentive to share their location, they do not need to give real data. Maybe the dev should give an explana…

>But if you require gps to make a post, the user does not benefit from it.

This behaviour would get an app rejected from the app stores. The app stores require you justify doing things like that and they require you to gracefully degrade if a user denies a permission.

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#278

Post by [deleted] »

Nereuxofficial wrote: post #13
progbits wrote: post #3

XPrivacy for rooted android could do this 7+ years ago and there are other modern alternatives (but I haven't rooted my phone for a long time so I can't vouch for them): https://github.com/M66B/XPrivacy Obviously that is not mainstream, I agree it should come built in. But then both Android and iOS allow bullshit like region-locked apps or preventing screenshots from DRM content, so good luck with that.

XPrivacy was incredibly cool. But on modern phones rooting and installing Xposed has either gotten massively more complicated or disabled ougright. GrapheneOS wasn't working with banking apps, Google broke rooting via Magisk multiple times on the Android Beta and at some point and i stopped bothering. Maybe GrapheneOS or similar Projects could do this

[deleted]

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#279

Post by aembleton »

jeroenhd wrote: post #97
oliverulerich wrote: post #85

Android introduced the approximate location option (I believe it was in version 11) as a per-app toggle in the permission settings. https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/6179507?hl=en#:~:... .

That only disables the permission or increases the uncertainty, it doesn't really feed fake data. If apps refuse to work unless you provide detailed location info or other permissions, there's no "provide fake data" option like the post suggests.

It's frustrating that the app knows you haven't provided it with exact location. Approximate location is usually sufficient and I wish android could just feed that into the app as an exact location.
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