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I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

solar.lowtechmagazine.com

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Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#171

Post by agentultra »

kevinh456 wrote: post #164
agentultra wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had young kids. I took my laptop to conferences and events. Performances. Things happen in these circumstances. Drinks spill. Laptops fall from heights. Cords get pulled. You know what happens when a MBP encounters a liquid? It depends. But one thing almost every device will have in common in such an encounter: they cannot be repaired. You have to replace the entire mainboard. And the cost is enough that you may as…

This is part of why Apple is pushing trade in when you buy a new device. They recycle it.

They claim to. I would love to read an independent audit of their recycling process. I suspect the vast majority of devices they extract the battery, the screen if it’s viable, and the rest ends up in a dump. “Recycled,” in a sense but not really.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#172

Post by paulmd »

fbhabbed wrote: post #158
ac130kz wrote: post #70

I got tired of laptops being: non-upgradable, poorly designed, overheating, having cheap components, cheap materials, so I'm switching to a backpackable mini-ITX build. For a journalist, even a first gen iPad should do the trick, but for quick compilation and development in general with all those heavy apps and daemons even a relatively fresh laptop CPU just doesn't keep up. The only two downsides are: no battery, sp…

> the only two downsides are: no battery, space And not being able to use it on the couch, on the toilet, outdoors in your backyard, on a plane, on a train and so on.

> on the toilet

sure you can, there's even a little shelf to hold the keyboard while you poop

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#173

Post by gtirloni »

fuzztester wrote: post #124
rpcope1 wrote: post #12

> Most of the 160-200 million laptops sold each year are replacement purchases. The average laptop is replaced every 3 years (in business) to five years (elsewhere). 3 My 5.7 years per laptop experience is not exceptional. This is one of the many aspects I don't like about how laptops are designed today. Even with OEM desktops like my Dell Precision T1700, it's still serviceable and fixable today without a whole lot…

>For both my Dell and Supermicro workstations, they basically last 10+ years, and I've got a lot of options to keep them going; I wish I could say the same about laptops. I really wish I could get a new 2k screen for the old Dell Latitude E6530 I have -- it's built a lot more robustly than my newer latitude. Agreed. When I was checking out new laptops to buy one, in shops, about a year ago, I was shocked to see the l…

It's been like this for at least 2 decades now.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#174

Post by gtirloni »

wyldfire wrote: post #14

I often buy a ~one generation old phone for this same reason. It's just so much better value to buy someone else's phone. The folks who keep buying the newest generation tech often seem to take really good care of their gear - perhaps because they plan to resell it later. I haven't done this as much with laptops because I do tend to keep those for such a long time that I can reasonably amortize a bigger investment ov…

I often replace phones because the battery starts holding less charge and I find it annoying to charge all the time.

I tried a battery replacement service once and didn't like the result on my sealed and hard to open by design phone.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#175

Post by oneplane »

rpcope1 wrote: post #12

> Most of the 160-200 million laptops sold each year are replacement purchases. The average laptop is replaced every 3 years (in business) to five years (elsewhere). 3 My 5.7 years per laptop experience is not exceptional. This is one of the many aspects I don't like about how laptops are designed today. Even with OEM desktops like my Dell Precision T1700, it's still serviceable and fixable today without a whole lot…

Some of the laptop issues are a chain of dependencies that en up with mechanical and power envelope. That doesn't mean it's impossible, but say you want to go from 720p to 2k, that also requires more power, a bit for the panel and a bit for the backlight. The mainboard might not have a TCON and eDP or LVDS transceiver to drive such a panel, and the GPU might not be able to handle it either. So now that new panel needs three more things:

  - Power supply
  - Display transmission
  - GPU
And those things in turn need more (or well, 'different') space, which in turn might not fit in the existing chassis. And if it does, you might still have the thermal envelope issue where the chassis can't support the right airflow in the right places, or the cooling solution might not.

None of those are impossible to solve, but they also aren't as simple as "just give me a different panel", because it's not really just about the single component, it almost never is.

We have had a lot of luck in the past with a single 'family' of computers (usually largely designed by compal, Foxconn etc.) having interchangeable parts, and the base models essentially being downgraded versions of the top-tier model, which means that as long as you stay within that family, you get to upgrade parts along the way.

Framework does an excellent job of keeping everything that still fits within the same envelope going. But if at any point the current eDP interface needs to be replaced to support higher bandwidth, that means that the possible combinations between panels, cables and mainboards is now a whole lot more complicated. Some panels might only work with some mainboards, which might mean you have to replace both at the same time, greatly reducing the usefulness of what remains. Currently we don't have a huge gap between previous generations and current generations, but I'm very curious what's going to happen when we do make another significant jump. Only time will tell.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#176

Post by user_7832 »

stetrain wrote: post #108
kibwen wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a few years ago battery life was maybe 7 hours and now it’s 18 At what point do battery improvements become completely unnecessary? Who's out here using their laptops for 18 hours continuously? It's like an electric car that can go 2,000 miles on a single charge; YAGNI. The vast majority of people would be perfectly well-served by a smaller, lighter, less expensive laptop that cuts down the battery to just 10 hours…

18 hours advertised is usually running a locally stored video file on loop at medium to low screen brightness and some light web browsing. My 18-hour laptop is more like 8-10 hours of real work usage, which is still fantastic compared to the 2-3 hours I would get at similar tasks 6-7 years ago. Another big change is improvements to sleep and standby time. I can use half the battery, close the lid, and be reasonably c…

> My 18-hour laptop is more like 8-10 hours of real work usage, which is still fantastic compared to the 2-3 hours I would get at similar tasks 6-7 years ago.

I’m not sure if you’re using an M1/2 MacBook but if you’re using windows laptops - 2 to 3 hours is pretty poor even for an old laptop (assuming it didn’t have an H series processor which is a whole another story).

My (dad’s) HP Probook with its 6th gen i5 processor could get between 6-10 hours of battery life when I got it around 2020, after some years of use. Sure, old batteries degrade, but 2-3 hours for a laptop less than 3-4 years old (or older, but with a new battery) is kinda poor to start with.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#177

Post by gtirloni »

hoot wrote: post #60
go_prodev wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Battery life gets mentioned quite often with laptops, but is it still really that important? I run my business from an X1 Carbon, but it's more about portability than battery life. Trains, planes, Starbucks all have power available so it's constantly plugged in and I can't remember the last time I used it on battery for more than an hour.

I recently got my first macbook (coming from a thinkpad) and it’s honestly more about not having to give a shit about a charger. It charges incredibly fast when I plug it into its monitor, but otherwise I just throw it in a bag without even thinking about what my battery percentage is. I’ll leave the house with it and not even bring the charger.

I think this is the biggest selling point for me. Fewer cables around.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#178

Post by soulbadguy »

ido wrote: post #133
soulbadguy wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't answer my question. I wasn't trying to imply that M1 are a bad value...

My old Dell XPS was actually slightly more expensive (even before adjusting to inflation - I was researching online and at the time it was the most recommended high-end pc laptop). And macs retain value a lot better than PCs - you can likely resell it for a significant fraction of its new price in a few years (unless you broke it).

Still doesn't answer my question, not sure why people feel the need to jump into this... maybe something wrong the tone on my answer.

But while i have you here... Which dell xps (year/model/spec) was it and which M1 mac (year/model/spec) was it.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#179

Post by akmittal »

jwcooper wrote: post #42
rpcope1 wrote: post #12

> Most of the 160-200 million laptops sold each year are replacement purchases. The average laptop is replaced every 3 years (in business) to five years (elsewhere). 3 My 5.7 years per laptop experience is not exceptional. This is one of the many aspects I don't like about how laptops are designed today. Even with OEM desktops like my Dell Precision T1700, it's still serviceable and fixable today without a whole lot…

This is what Framework set out to do (and is pulling it off so far...I'm typing this out on my 12th gen framework). They have an entire marketplace of replacement parts you can buy, including screens. They've even got battery upgrades (increased capacity), better speakers, new screen type (matte) that you can retrofit into your existing Framework. They support upgrading from their first gen laptop (admittedly they ar…

I just upgraded RAM(4 -> 12 GB) and HDD to SSD of a 8 years old laptop and it became a lot more responsive. Laptops now a days are not upgradable and companies claim they are doing so to build lighter laptops but framework is proving all of them wrong

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#180

Post by happymellon »

gremlinunderway wrote: post #47
redroyal wrote: post #37

“Laptops don’t change” Really? because a few years ago battery life was maybe 7 hours and now it’s 18. And with faster processors, thunderbolt 4 and USB C charging, wifi 6, better screens and lighter. I keep hearing this argument for not buying a new laptop every year and it just doesn’t hold water. I say buy the latest MacBook, expense it, factor it in as a monthly cost. These are expendable and essential tools. The…

If you read the rest of the site, you would see that the argument against not buying a new laptop every year is to find ways to lower the insane amount of electronics waste we're generating any single year. It's not just about lack of features, it's also just ridiculously wasteful even for an industry already known for it. At least my PC, I'm just swapping out parts for upgrades. I'm not dumping my entire PC tower in…

And this is another reason I avoid Nvidia whenever possible.

At least with laptops, I have perfectly serviceable Intel and AMD systems, but I have old laptops with Nvidia that are no longer supported and basically can't be used anymore for productive purposes.

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