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I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

solar.lowtechmagazine.com

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Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#31

Post by btgeekboy »

cempaka wrote: post #23

I'm still getting great mileage out of a T430 I bought in 2017, and I'm not particularly nice to my laptops. The one frustration I've had recently is that it can't drive my nice 38-inch monitor at its full resolution, so I've started eyeing a T470.

The T430 is a rugged laptop, but it’s getting pretty far up there in age. For example, I use mine in the shop to read PDFs, update the project’s Trello board, fetch software updates and drop them on SD cards, etc.

I used to think Trello kinda lagged. Great tool, but man it’s kinda slow. Then I opened it on a modern computer - it’s just the old hardware holding it back. Same with PDFs - these are graphical 11x17 pages, and it really does get bogged down easy. You’re gonna be amazed how much faster everything feels when you get to the newer machine.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#32

Post by pessimizer »

I'd like to defend the T430 from a T430. Yes, it was a bad purchase when I made it (and when the author made it), but you can buy them for $100 a piece now on Ebay. Keyboards you can probably buy 20 for $50. Since they are from the dawn of Thinkpad's bullshit, they hardcoded the hardware choices you could make for upgrades into the firmware. Awful. But 1vyrain (https://1vyra.in/) came along and fixed all that.

A T430 doesn't even feel underpowered these days, and has a (horrible) webcam (that can be improved a bit by judicious software postprocessing.) With a dining room table, a router running OpenWRT, 4 T430s, and a 5-10 year-old gaming PC as a server to compile things on/serve things from/etc., you could start a little software company and your biggest expense would be the table.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#33

Post by mholm »

YZF wrote: post #20

Typing this from my `MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Late 2013)` ... Also have two working ThinkPads in use in my household that are older where I've had to replace the CPU fans, at some point they just crumble, but otherwise work OK-ish (but maybe getting to a point where I should really retire them).

The Pre-touchbar Retina Macbook Pros were the perfect laptop for the era. They could run a bit hot (but what didn't, back then?). Excellent hardware quality, and can generally still run well today if you don't do anything demanding. I've got a 2013 13" that doesn't have a single issue other than age.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#34

Post by sounds »

easeout wrote: post #17

> Furthermore, Linux operating systems do not steal your personal data and do not try to lock you in, like the newest operating systems from both Microsoft and Apple do. Is recent macOS accused of stealing or shown to steal personal data? Platform lock-in is not news, but that would be. This is an earnest question; maybe I'm in a bubble and missed a big story.

Note that the only data tracking Apple was caught doing was in iOS, not macOS, but there are many signs that Apple collects aggregated usage data in macOS (which probably cannot be later reduced to expose the behavior of any single customer).

2021 Jun 7:

   > "Anyone opting out of tracking right now is basically having the
   > same level of data collected as they were before. Apple hasn't
   > actually deterred the behavior that they have called out as being
   > so reprehensible, so they are kind of complicit in it happening,"
   > Seufert explained.
* https://www.macrumors.com/2021/06/07/apps-continuing-to-trac...

Apple did finally close this loophole in iOS 14.5, causing Facebook to lose what some analysts think was ~$10 Billion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identifier_for_Advertisers - however, by March 18, 2021, Mark Zuckerberg stated that it could actually encourage advertisers to use the explicit targetting and tracking happening on facebook, and he made it sound like a win-win.

2022 Nov 8:

   > The recent changes that Apple has made to App Store ads should
   > raise many #privacy concerns. It seems that the #AppStore app
   > on iOS 14.6 sends every tap you make in the app to Apple. This
   > data is sent in one request: (data usage & personalized ads are off)
* https://gizmodo.com/apple-iphone-analytics-tracking-even-whe...

* https://techcrunch.com/2022/11/14/apple-faces-new-lawsuit-ov...

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#35

Post by luciusdomitius »

rozenmd wrote: post #7

ThinkPads are absolutely magic. Here's one I built for travelling: https://maxrozen.com/replacing-my-macbook-m1-with-thinkpad-t...

They used to be. I am writing this from the above-mentioned T480. It is 3 years old, has both usb-c ports replaced, small crack on the backside of the screen and the keyboard zif is broken, so the tape cable is... well taped to the connector.

On the other hand my X200, T420, T450 are still in mint condition. To be completely fair, modern macs are also way off from well-built. Shiny yes, but sturdy is the last thing I'd call them.

BTW, in older ThinkPads, the drain-pipes under the keyboards actually worked - you could pour water on it just for kicks. Now it is there only for decoration.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#36

Post by pessimizer »

ido wrote: post #5

Nice. Now try to do the same as (some types of) programmer or 3d modeller or video editor. The newest MacBook with an M2 chip compiles and runs my projects drastically faster than the 2015 Dell XPS Skylake-i7 laptop I used to have and the GPU on the M2 is so ridiculously more powerful it's like going from 3dfx voodoo to a modern GPU.

It would be silly if this article were trying to recommend a 15 year old computer for intense numerical processing, which is why nobody, including the author, made the attempt.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#37

Post by redroyal »

“Laptops don’t change”

Really? because a few years ago battery life was maybe 7 hours and now it’s 18. And with faster processors, thunderbolt 4 and USB C charging, wifi 6, better screens and lighter.

I keep hearing this argument for not buying a new laptop every year and it just doesn’t hold water. I say buy the latest MacBook, expense it, factor it in as a monthly cost. These are expendable and essential tools. They pay for themselves

And these framework laptops are pretty awful. They run hot and are poorly designed. The modular usb addons are a joke and exchangeable GPUs? heavy, power hungry, not for laptops. 3 hour battery life. The main product feature AFAICS is virtue signaling. These products are not open hardware either. Then, there’s this modularity argument. Like this is the last laptop you’ll ever own and forever will be replacing it piece by piece. Disassembling over and over. But that’s not realistic. You’ll have to upgrade to faster processors and the form factor of the mb will change regardless of what they say, and you’re counting on the company being around in a few years which is a poor bet. They can’t compete with Apple or even Lenovo

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#38

Post by soulbadguy »

ralfd wrote: post #22
ido wrote: post #5

Nice. Now try to do the same as (some types of) programmer or 3d modeller or video editor. The newest MacBook with an M2 chip compiles and runs my projects drastically faster than the 2015 Dell XPS Skylake-i7 laptop I used to have and the GPU on the M2 is so ridiculously more powerful it's like going from 3dfx voodoo to a modern GPU.

My M1 Mac is the best laptop I ever owned. But it is also a big step up, I expect my machine to stay viable quite some time and recommend my noob friends to buy used M1/M2 Macbooks (if available).

Is it also (inflation / time adjusted) the most expensive ?

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#39

Post by ip26 »

danradunchev wrote: post #2

Although capitalism could provide us with used laptops for decades to come, the strategy outlined above should be considered a hack, not an economical model. It’s a way to deal with or escape from an economic system that tries to force you and me to consume as much as possible. It’s an attempt to break that system, but it’s not a solution in itself. We need another economical model, in which we build all laptops like…

laptop sales would go down, but that’s precisely what we need. Furthermore, with today’s computing efficiency...

Somehow these conversations never seem to talk about how we would not have current levels of compute if everybody kept their computers for one or two decades before buying another. Good or bad, right or wrong, the present state of affairs only happened with the present replacement cycle.

I'm not arguing we have to keep the present replacement cycle, but I think it needs addressing.

Re: I stopped buying new laptops (2020)

#40

Post by eatsyourtacos »

dbg31415 wrote: post #25

I mean... you can save a few bucks on a laptop. Sure. But the real cost is the downtime. If I have an employee that I value at $100,000 a year, working 1800 hours, that's $55 / hour. Assuming their work doesn't impact anyone else, it would be silly for me to take that employee out of commission for any expense that costs less than $440 / day. Way smarter for me to buy a new laptop, which is less likely to have any is…

It's crazy that you think that actually makes sense in practice. Yeah you can put the numbers out there and it may "seem" correct but in reality that is ridiculous logic.
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