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When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

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Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#181

Post by _Algernon_ »

davidjfelix wrote: post #165
evandale wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This seems like a learning opportunity. Or a Darwinian opportunity. Either way, self-solving. I took either as meaning a learning opportunity for one or all of the 1) GPS app makers, 2) the person who blindly followed the directions of a robot, or 3) the rest of us who learn about the event. What interpretation did you have that suggests they were referring to eugenics?

I think you're selectively ignoring parts of the comment. "Darwinian opportunity ... [which is] self-solving" is clearly referring to the death of a person who blindly followed GPS directions for a mis-configured app. GP was saying that anyone who dies because an app told them wrong information was not "fit" (darwinian fitness) for survival. Expressing no remorse or desire to prevent preventable death with the justif…

There is a limit to the extent that functioning adults should be protected against themselves by the government. As long as the feature is designed with UX in mind, and explains what it does in plain text, I do not see the issue. Individual autonomy should be prioritised as long as third parties are not harmed. Anything else is infantilization, which is not a role the government should take.

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#182

Post by dweinus »

jstummbillig wrote: post #150

Why do we need to be awful? Here is a simple rule: No is an option, unless it's really not an option. If it's not an option, you need to be very clear about why (in the app application process maybe), otherwise your app gets declined. i.e. if tiktok/ig asks for permissions on camera and microphone, no is an option, because you don't need either to use either. If parts of your app can feasibly be used by a user withou…

Sounds good, but enforcing it how? The only party here that can do the enforcing is the Google/Apple/Microsoft App Store. I'm not sure they all have the right incentives to expend the effort to enforce that in a consistent and user-friendly way. Otherwise would have already.

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#183

Post by petesergeant »

lldb wrote: post #161
ryandrake wrote: post #27

I’m all for the “fake data” idea, but also: Apps should be required to gracefully handle the cases where users deny permission to access real data. I know last time I developed for iOS, it was Apple’s policy that apps cannot punish users or exit() the app in retaliation for them denying a permission. Apps must gracefully handle it and continue running. Also, and this was even longer ago, apps could not require users…

Worst offender is google photos on iOS - you can’t even open the app without giving it all photos access. Selected photos doesn’t count. Even just to view photos already saved in the cloud.

Seems weird that an app needs to be able to tell if it got access to all or just some photos

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#184

Post by dagmx »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #125
dagmx wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Netflix won’t send your browser high resolution video unless your browser supports Widevine. Typically it’ll restrict you to 480p iirc.

Which doesn’t prevent you from taking screenshots… (and doesn’t make it especially difficult to just capture the whole stream either) This whole screenshot point is silly to begin with, because screenshots aren’t a form of piracy or copyright infringement.

It prevents you from taking high resolution recordings , whether they’re screenshots or video.

You either take a low resolution capture or the DRM layer prevents content from being displayed when recording.

The legality of the subject is not something I’m talking about. You just asked for examples and I provided them.

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#185

Post by l33t233372 »

grishka wrote: post #154
bithaze wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not okay to have to jailbreak the thing to make it usable. I guess we'll have to tell millions of users that their iPhones are all unusable, then. Imagine the shock!

It might not be as much of a problem in the US, but it is a real pain in the ass people have to contend with, for example, in Russia. I've seen it myself. Apple is enforcing US sanctions against some Russian companies, which means they can't have an iOS app. At all. I heard stories about how a sanctioned bank would load some kind of shadily signed copy of its app onto people's iPhones in branches. For Android, that s…

This sounds like a good thing; the sanctions are working as intended.

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#186

Post by l33t233372 »

grishka wrote: post #91
rmorey wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

else not be allowed in the App Store, a stick apple is more than happy to wield

It should be illegal for a device manufacturer to retain any kind of control over devices after sale. Some governments are finally realizing this. So no, this is not a viable solution in the long run. Besides, Android is a thing. I personally have never used an iPhone as my real phone precisely because of this — I can't install modded apps, I can't install pirated apps, etc etc. It's not okay to have to jailbreak the…

What if I (like so many others) want my device manufacturer to retain some kind of control of my device after sale?

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#187

Post by karaterobot »

Feels like something a third-party password manager could handle. I would not expect Apple or Google to ever do this on their own initiative though. In fact they would probably disallow the third-party app from doing it, as it would likely violate some term of service or other. Neither Apple nor Google has any incentive to make it easy to pollute data, or foster the expectation that you have a right to obfuscation. If you started expecting it from apps you installed, I think you'd eventually start to expect it from Apple and Google themselves, and that'd be bad for them.

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#188

Post by petesergeant »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #35
charcircuit wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>region-locked apps There is no such thing. The respective app stores allow you to distribute apps in select regions. This is an important feature for app stores because an app may not be a good experience in all countries. The app may not be localized to all languages, there may not be content moderators for those languages, those countries have a multitude of laws that you need to comply with, your app may include…

The way Apple have implemented region localisation on the App Store is very bad. You basically have to nuke your whole account to change regions, and that includes losing all your subscriptions (if you have any annual subscriptions that’s just too bad for you). So if you spend time between two counties, and need a region locked app in each one, there’s actually no workable solution. Your explanation for the anti-scre…

Yah, this works terribly for expats. A warning should be sufficient for non-DRM content, and for DRM content just use the Netflix model of “we’ll show you content you can see based on where you are right now”.

Being locked out of Starbucks Thailand app because I don’t want to change my whole iTunes account is ridiculous.

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#189

Post by amelius »

ryandrake wrote: post #27

I’m all for the “fake data” idea, but also: Apps should be required to gracefully handle the cases where users deny permission to access real data. I know last time I developed for iOS, it was Apple’s policy that apps cannot punish users or exit() the app in retaliation for them denying a permission. Apps must gracefully handle it and continue running. Also, and this was even longer ago, apps could not require users…

> it was Apple’s policy that apps cannot punish users or exit() the app in retaliation for them denying a permission.

Sounds a lot like EU's GDPR: you must show a cookie popup but if the user denies it then you must still serve the content.

(When companies grow large enough, they become suspiciously similar to governmental regulators.)

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#190

Post by wruza »

duxup wrote: post #174
dodgson wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on the app. For example, I can’t view my balance in my banking app if I don’t sign in to an account, but I can find nearby ATMs or pull up the number for customer service. The logistics app could offer some features like phone numbers, support hours, or even account management features without location access, so users can still get access to those things even if they can’t enable location (or are in Airpl…

In this case the users of the app are our clients employees. No location access is not an option for them. Nobody wants to call in their location, nor do our clients want to setup some process for that.

Your case is special, but think about a maps app that requires login and location, when you want to simply measure the walking distance between two points.

I believe there’s a special publishing mode for yours, but not sure how it works irl.

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