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When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

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Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#151

Post by e4e5 »

flutas wrote: post #100
Nereuxofficial wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

XPrivacy was incredibly cool. But on modern phones rooting and installing Xposed has either gotten massively more complicated or disabled ougright. GrapheneOS wasn't working with banking apps, Google broke rooting via Magisk multiple times on the Android Beta and at some point and i stopped bothering. Maybe GrapheneOS or similar Projects could do this

FWIW: Rooting seems fairly easy at this point in time , at least for pixel devices. Flash with magisk, install Universal Safetynet Fix ( https://github.com/Displax/safetynet-fix/ ) and you're passing safetynet / play integrity API. I haven't come across a single app that doesn't work due to root currently, but I limit my installed apps.

Thank you, I rooted my phone a few days ago and have been putting off fixing safety net.

But that worked and was absolutely painless.

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#152

Post by Swanlyk2 »

ryandrake wrote: post #27

I’m all for the “fake data” idea, but also: Apps should be required to gracefully handle the cases where users deny permission to access real data. I know last time I developed for iOS, it was Apple’s policy that apps cannot punish users or exit() the app in retaliation for them denying a permission. Apps must gracefully handle it and continue running. Also, and this was even longer ago, apps could not require users…

Couldn't find another place to put this comment but how do I get the privilege of posting an Ask HN discussion starter thread for startup advice?

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#153

Post by sircastor »

jwr wrote: post #110

This makes a lot of sense. If an app needs my data to improve my experience (and only mine), then feeding it fake data should only degrade my experience. It shouldn't matter to the app developers/authors/owners. But if (as in most cases) the goal is to data-mine me, fake data should work nicely to impede that. Of course it won't matter for things like WhatsApp, where people happily sync their entire list of contacts…

>Of course it won't matter for things like WhatsApp, where people happily sync their entire list of contacts with Facebook/Meta just to have a slightly nicer messaging experience.

I was very unhappy to have to do this, but it wasn’t a slightly nicer experience. The app and the service are only marginally usable until you do this. (At least on mobile)

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#154

Post by grishka »

bithaze wrote: post #146
grishka wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be illegal for a device manufacturer to retain any kind of control over devices after sale. Some governments are finally realizing this. So no, this is not a viable solution in the long run. Besides, Android is a thing. I personally have never used an iPhone as my real phone precisely because of this — I can't install modded apps, I can't install pirated apps, etc etc. It's not okay to have to jailbreak the…

> It's not okay to have to jailbreak the thing to make it usable. I guess we'll have to tell millions of users that their iPhones are all unusable, then. Imagine the shock!

It might not be as much of a problem in the US, but it is a real pain in the ass people have to contend with, for example, in Russia. I've seen it myself. Apple is enforcing US sanctions against some Russian companies, which means they can't have an iOS app. At all. I heard stories about how a sanctioned bank would load some kind of shadily signed copy of its app onto people's iPhones in branches. For Android, that same bank just hosts a self-updating apk on their website — with no intermediates to tamper with their app distribution.

Besides, being able to install modified apps is an important leverage against companies that don't act in their users' best interest. This way you can still use their services, but do so on your own terms.

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#156

Post by immibis »

ryandrake wrote: post #90
mormegil wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> apps could not require users to have “an account” in order to run There is some big qualification missing or I don't understand what does that even mean. How could a banking app run without an account? An online game? The Twitter app nowadays? Dropbox/Nextcloud/...? Etc. Yeah, I agree that for a lot of apps, requiring a account is just a marketing gimmick, but I don't think such a general rule could work.

Good question! We actually asked Apple exactly this when appealing the AppStore de-listing. How come others can require an account and we can't? What was it about our app that made us have to spend the engineering effort to add a guest login (this was a disingenuous argument that I advised against, since we deliberately spent engineering effort to require the login)? Their response, not the exact wording since it was…

Apple used COMMON SENSE? That's incredible. Google would never do that

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#157

Post by Gareth321 »

jadbox wrote: post #68
mormegil wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> apps could not require users to have “an account” in order to run There is some big qualification missing or I don't understand what does that even mean. How could a banking app run without an account? An online game? The Twitter app nowadays? Dropbox/Nextcloud/...? Etc. Yeah, I agree that for a lot of apps, requiring a account is just a marketing gimmick, but I don't think such a general rule could work.

There are many exceptions to the rule with Apple's policies. I knew a few app developers that could skirt many of the official rules, because they had friends that worked for Apple.

I cannot wait for the DMA to take effect early next year so I can install ANY other app store.

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#158

Post by pmontra »

ryandrake wrote: post #27

I’m all for the “fake data” idea, but also: Apps should be required to gracefully handle the cases where users deny permission to access real data. I know last time I developed for iOS, it was Apple’s policy that apps cannot punish users or exit() the app in retaliation for them denying a permission. Apps must gracefully handle it and continue running. Also, and this was even longer ago, apps could not require users…

How that works with banking apps? What can they do without an account? Maybe a web view to the home page of the bank.

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#159

Post by sircastor »

I really like iOS’ “only while using the app” option for location data, or “give the app access to only these photos” and I wish that premise extended to other things conceptually, like “give access only to this subset of contacts”
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