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The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

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Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#61
post #32

If the author works with Kotlin, and for that price tag…. Get a mac!

Some of us (me included) just refuse to use a Mac. If I couldn't find a good Thinkpad, I would get a Surface.

I'm here with you. I just refuse to use Windows, but I do recognize and empathise with people who feel this way about Mac or Linux. I would rather use something because I love it, rather than not use it because I hate it; but it's totally normal to find something off-putting.

Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#62
post #49

I find that battery life extremely uninspiring. I wonder if that's because of Windows, JetBrains or a combination of both. I run a x86-64 laptop with Linux AND decicated graphics (Ryzen 6850u and Radeon 6800S) and get 6-10 hours of battery life while developing. Granted, that's after quite a bit of tweaking - I've configured my monitor to go to 60hz, limit the CPU to only 4 cores/8 threads and 2200MHz while on batter…

Meanwhile I've had my laptops plugged in for 99.999% of their life.

Sometimes I'll unplug to bring it to an overnight christmas party or camping to watch a movie at night. Then I'll probably end up plugging it in when I arrive.

Just remembered, one time I brought my laptop to a real estate meeting, and it was so boring I did work during it. But the meeting was over in an hour.

I'm sure some people like having their computer not plugged in, but a docked laptop is so nice.

Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#63
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same where wondering if it performs the same/better under Linux. I imagine the battery life could be better under Linux based on my experience with Windows 11 on my own laptop, I mean, the fans don't even spin up that often under Linux unlike the near constant fan chorus Windows gives me. Also, a computer without a single fan so I can comfortably use it on my bed? With possibility to replace it's SSD? It sounded a lo…

> imagine the battery life could be better under Linux based on my experience with Windows 11 on my own laptop God, I have experienced the exact opposite with Linux on laptops. Battery management is so bad I am considering moving to a Macbook.

Based on my experience, I can tell you the grass is not greener on the other side.

Forced to use Mac for work, the previous Macbook Pro would lose charge _while plugged in_! The battery goes empty, it shuts off and I wait for it to recharge while off.

They recently changed mine to an M1. Battery is much better than the previous generation and could be good, so long as you're not using it for anything. As soon as the IDE/Zoom/Docker/what have you spins up, it loses charge. It is slower at loses charge while plugged in, but so long as you are not using it except for note taking, I would not trust away from a power source.

If I don't have a power source nearby, I turn everything off and switch my dev workflow to Sublime to prolong the battery.

I don't have to suffer any of these shenanigans under Linux. Granted, I have a Thinkpad, which has great Linux support, so that definitely helps.

Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#64
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of us (me included) just refuse to use a Mac. If I couldn't find a good Thinkpad, I would get a Surface.

May i ask why ? I don't use Macs because my day to day requires X86 and linux. But pounds for pounds if someone doesn't mind MacOs. The new Mx series of macs is just a better value than most high-end laptop theses days

>The new Mx series of macs is just a better value than most high-end laptop theses days

?

I just recently bought a laptop and when I was comparing benchmarks, I didn't see Apple anywhere near the top of the list for CPU single or multithreaded. Not that I remotely care about CPU speeds, my number 1 focus was VRAM. Made it an easy decision since you basically pick something with Nvidia and high VRAM.

Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#65
Its 2023 and I still don't understand the point of CPU speeds, even as a dev doing both single and multithreading. AI is continuing to put priority on GPUs.

In the worst case, I wait an extra fraction of a second with a bad CPU.

With a bad GPU, you are basically excluded from the latest technology.

I'm sure ARM really wants to advertise that CPU is relevant, but it continues to be nearly irrelevant when you buy something a laptop with a dedicated GPU. (Its good enough)

Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#66
post #59
post #5

I'd be much more interested in the Linux situation on this laptop. Most of the UI applications I use casually or CLI apps are available on ARM (I have them running fine on a Pinephone, so the experience on a laptop will only be better). But not sure how the dev workflow would be: Podman, IntelliJ, Sublime Text, etc.. And some casual stuff like Calibre, Thunderbird, Joplin. Oh and how much would the battery life impro…

I think some of the aarch64 laptop have landed in the Linux kernel source tree. I am currently using a C630 laptop wich could be considered a predecessor to the discussed model ( with an anemic 4GB of RAM), and following up some botched Windows update (Windows recovery put the system in a worst place). I decided to take the plunge and install Linux. Hardware support is rough, and depends a lot on firmware file you wo…

Thanks for that! Probably in a couple of years, as my laptop is still serving me well enough for now. It's also pretty light and still has good battery, so not a ton of benefit there.

If the battery life was doubled (~8+ hours), that definitely would be more intriguing.

But ouch, hadn't had WiFi or sound issues on Linux since the 2009~2010 era, will not be fun to get back to that, though hopefully in a few years as the drivers mature, this would become less of an issue.

> On the most annoying side, I don't know if there is a way to configure the lid action, as it put the laptop on standby.

Even when an external display is connected? That's got to be annoying!

Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#67
post #5

I'd be much more interested in the Linux situation on this laptop. Most of the UI applications I use casually or CLI apps are available on ARM (I have them running fine on a Pinephone, so the experience on a laptop will only be better). But not sure how the dev workflow would be: Podman, IntelliJ, Sublime Text, etc.. And some casual stuff like Calibre, Thunderbird, Joplin. Oh and how much would the battery life impro…

I have largely the same feelings on this. If you haven't used WSL on Windows, the workflow is actually very nice. You can install and run GUI apps in the Linux environment. I usually use VS Code with remoting for WSL though. My current job and personal setup aren't in windows, but have used it in the past and it's very usable, if not ideal.

For now, sticking with my macbook m1 air for personal use. Though I really don't like the differences in the kb layout and hotkeys from nix or windows.

Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#68
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use a desktop that I can remotely access. So I can do development on my fast computer from anywhere. It’s always on so it’s easy to run long jobs. Since my laptop is basically just a thin client used for ssh, vnc, and a web browser, it’s super easily replaced.

I've yet to find an offline desktop which can be secured, let alone work on it from a remote location. Cant people detect when their offline machines are being/have been hacked?

It's much like anything else... I run my desktop under Linux, keep it upodated, have SSH on a non-standard port with only public/private key access enabled for my account. I access it over wireguard running on my home server. Wireguard is the only port available through my firewall.

So I can connect to my home network over wireguard, and SSH to my desktop. VS Code + Remoting extensions work great for this... almost like editing locally, but running remotely. The integrated terminal in VS Code is invaluable when doing this.

Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#69
post #34
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wireguard+SSH+VNC works wonders for me.

Does VNC get laggy once you’re in more restricted bandwidth ie hotel/cell/etc?

Yeah, it's not great remotely... If you are mostly in an editor, VS Code's remoting extensions over ssh are pretty great as an experience.

Re: The ARM powered ThinkPad x13s, as a developer

#70

Like the author, I also do a lot of Kotlin development and use intellij and pycharm a lot. This sounds like an awful laptop to do that on. Kotlin is great but it's compiler is rather slow and you end up waiting for that a lot. So, faster is better. I noticed about a 2.5x build speed improvements when I upgraded my cheap Samsung i5 laptop (a temporary thing I used for a while) to the M1 14" Mac Book Pro. On a typical…

Silly question ; am I the only person who still uses a desktop / tower machine? Feels like I'm a huge minority these days, but when it comes to needing processing power and juice it still feels it provides budget and upgrade flexibility no laptop can match.

You are definitely not. Writing this from my work machine, passively cooled Ryzen desktop, which has been serving me well for the past 5 years. And I don't miss much having a laptop. I work from home anyways.

I think the demographics depends heavily on industry. I know many people doing 3D work and they all use desktops these days.

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