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When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

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Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#91

Post by grishka »

rmorey wrote: post #70
grishka wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apps should be required to gracefully handle the cases where users deny permission to access real data Or else? You're suggesting an organizational solution to a technical problem. This can't possibly work. Fake data is the only practical solution to this, such that the app would see the permission as granted when it is not actually granted.

else not be allowed in the App Store, a stick apple is more than happy to wield

It should be illegal for a device manufacturer to retain any kind of control over devices after sale. Some governments are finally realizing this.

So no, this is not a viable solution in the long run. Besides, Android is a thing. I personally have never used an iPhone as my real phone precisely because of this — I can't install modded apps, I can't install pirated apps, etc etc. It's not okay to have to jailbreak the thing to make it usable.

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#92

Post by crazygringo »

halfstep wrote: post #9

I really wish browsers would take this approach with notifications. If a website asks if I have notifications enabled, tell them yes, and send them all into the oblivion. Edit: to clarify, I already disable all notifications in Firefox. I was referring to websites that check via JavaScript whether you have notifications turned on and trigger a pop up to ask you to enable them.

Why?

I don't enable notifications and it's fine, I've never had a problem.

If you don't want notifications, why would you still want the website to send them?

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#93

Post by jeroenhd »

scrps wrote: post #84
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LineageOS already had this feature in Cyanogen as the Privacy Guard. It was taken out because of pressure from Google.

You have a source on that? I used to be a lineageOS user and I always wondered why privacy guard disappeared.

I found this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28096873

Looks like Privacy Guard was dropped because the rewrite wasn't worth the effort.

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#94

Post by AmericanChopper »

charcircuit wrote: post #55
AmericanChopper wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way Apple have implemented region localisation on the App Store is very bad. You basically have to nuke your whole account to change regions, and that includes losing all your subscriptions (if you have any annual subscriptions that’s just too bad for you). So if you spend time between two counties, and need a region locked app in each one, there’s actually no workable solution. Your explanation for the anti-scre…

>I don’t know of any streaming app that doesn’t also have a website that I can take screenshots (as well as full screen captures) on Your browser does not have DRM support which typically means you are not sent the full quality videos. And not all media apps have a website. Not every app that I am talking about are from massive companies that can support making apps and a website.

> Your browser does not have DRM support which typically means you are not sent the full quality videos

To take this argument seriously I’d need you to provide some examples. I use some of the bis streaming services, and they all stream full high quality media to my laptop. Which are the ones that don’t?

> And not all media apps have a website.

Again, examples? Every streaming app that’s ever blocked me from taking a screenshot has also had a streaming website. What portion of the market licenses content with a requirement to use DRM to block screenshots?

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#96

Post by flangola7 »

grishka wrote: post #54
ryandrake wrote: post #27

I’m all for the “fake data” idea, but also: Apps should be required to gracefully handle the cases where users deny permission to access real data. I know last time I developed for iOS, it was Apple’s policy that apps cannot punish users or exit() the app in retaliation for them denying a permission. Apps must gracefully handle it and continue running. Also, and this was even longer ago, apps could not require users…

> Apps should be required to gracefully handle the cases where users deny permission to access real data Or else? You're suggesting an organizational solution to a technical problem. This can't possibly work. Fake data is the only practical solution to this, such that the app would see the permission as granted when it is not actually granted.

It's not a tech problem though, and tech culture is already too eager to find technical "solutions" to societal and organizational problems like this.

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#97

Post by jeroenhd »

oliverulerich wrote: post #85

Android introduced the approximate location option (I believe it was in version 11) as a per-app toggle in the permission settings. https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/6179507?hl=en#:~:... .

That only disables the permission or increases the uncertainty, it doesn't really feed fake data.

If apps refuse to work unless you provide detailed location info or other permissions, there's no "provide fake data" option like the post suggests.

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#98

Post by ryandrake »

freedomben wrote: post #77
duxup wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apps must gracefully handle it and continue running. Would this include… not doing anything? A notice that to use the app that you must grant access? I hate apps that do that … BUT: I am thinking of a logistics application that I wrote that requires location access. It effectively serves no purpose without location access. It’s a small app that we offer to our clients. Not an app for the general public. But it is a…

I would imagine they just mean "you can't crash or abruptly exit." Telling the user "please grant location access to use the app" and providing a button to try again is probably fine.

I think it depends on the function that the permission access provides. If permission use is core to the app (like your app is a map with a dot for the user's location that has no other functionality like business searching), then, you're probably allowed to just sit there with an empty map doing nothing until the user consents.

If location access is peripheral to the core function of the app, it's a different story. Like your Yelp and one of many functions of your app is to "search nearby" then you can't just have a screen that does nothing until the user consents.

EDIT: Yes, for OP's use case, you'd just appeal to Apple and prove that the app has no other purpose besides the use case that requires location. I've done this in the past successfully.

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#99

Post by halfstep »

crazygringo wrote: post #92
halfstep wrote: post #9

I really wish browsers would take this approach with notifications. If a website asks if I have notifications enabled, tell them yes, and send them all into the oblivion. Edit: to clarify, I already disable all notifications in Firefox. I was referring to websites that check via JavaScript whether you have notifications turned on and trigger a pop up to ask you to enable them.

Why? I don't enable notifications and it's fine, I've never had a problem. If you don't want notifications, why would you still want the website to send them?

Some websites will check whether you have notifications enabled and spawn an in-page pop up requesting access before they trigger the actual, native browser request.

So ideally this would stop that from happening.

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#100

Post by flutas »

Nereuxofficial wrote: post #13
progbits wrote: post #3

XPrivacy for rooted android could do this 7+ years ago and there are other modern alternatives (but I haven't rooted my phone for a long time so I can't vouch for them): https://github.com/M66B/XPrivacy Obviously that is not mainstream, I agree it should come built in. But then both Android and iOS allow bullshit like region-locked apps or preventing screenshots from DRM content, so good luck with that.

XPrivacy was incredibly cool. But on modern phones rooting and installing Xposed has either gotten massively more complicated or disabled ougright. GrapheneOS wasn't working with banking apps, Google broke rooting via Magisk multiple times on the Android Beta and at some point and i stopped bothering. Maybe GrapheneOS or similar Projects could do this

FWIW: Rooting seems fairly easy at this point in time, at least for pixel devices.

Flash with magisk, install Universal Safetynet Fix (https://github.com/Displax/safetynet-fix/) and you're passing safetynet / play integrity API.

I haven't come across a single app that doesn't work due to root currently, but I limit my installed apps.

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