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Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

washingtonpost.com

471–480 of 660 posts

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quote from the article: > A newly released national survey suggests the percent of adults who have used illicit drugs increased to 12.8 percent in 2022, up from 7.8 in 2001 So, No.

How do they define "illicit drugs" if everything is legal?

They decriminalized personal use. They didn’t fully legalize use.

Similar to speeding tickets in the US. Speeding is against the law, but minor infractions are not criminal offenses.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#472

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I just don't get how is this not obvious. There are a lot of seriously SICK or DISREGULATED people who are ILLEGALLY staying in PUBLIC AREAS causing PUBLIC HARM. They are taking part in ILLEGAL activities that are generally degenerate, indecent and uncivilised. Any normal functioning society handle this with a proportionate response and its really really simple. YOU REMOVE THESE PEOPLE FROM SOCIETY. They forfeited th…

How is this not reasonable? What is your alternative?

Put them in housing? THEY WILL BURN DOWN THE HOUSE! Allow them to stay? THEY WILL BURN DOWN YOUR STREETS!

Why tf do you think its ok for you to be too scared to let your kids play outside IN THE RICHEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!

THIS IS NOT NORMAL. THIS IS NOT OK! YOU GUYS ARE F** CR*ZY!!!!

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.kqed.org/news/11209729/did-the-emptying-of-menta... This nice timelime adds to what this person said. There's more that helped shape the publics perception of mental health. The movie "One flew over the cukcoos nest" seemed to create a negative perception about these facilities. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.2466/pr0.1983.53.1.1... This study in 1983, though small, showed that 4 out of 5 people…

There were a number of scandals and exposes during that time including Geraldo Rivera making a name for himself with his investigations of the Willowbrook State School in NY. The closure of such institutions was very much a national movement. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willowbrook_State_School

If there were scandals at fire departments around the country would you eliminate some or all of them?

It's the same with mental institutions. There are people who should be committed for the rest of their lives and nothing, short of curing them, changes that

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#474
post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Communism is bad because communists think the ends justify the means and (as you are demonstrating) shamelessly excuse tens of millions of murders (proving they've learned nothing and will do it again when given the chance.)

You obviously have absolutely no idea what communists think, and what "communism" means. What you are demonstrating is that it is impossible to talk with you. Not sure if that is because you can't understand a basic sentence or just because you aren't open to even learn what a word means before making completely wrong conclusions, but I don't care. We won't have a constructive discussion, let's stop here.

Communists think that it possible to build communism by killing of «bad» (rich) people, until good people, liberated from burden of capitalism, will build communism. In their imagination, it's OK to kill 30% of population to build heaven for them.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does commenting 3 asterisks mean? I’ve been noticing this more and more recently

It’s an alt-right dog whistle.

What does it refer to? Couldn't find anything on Google.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#476
post #62

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[flagged]

No, what does that have to do with drugs? Sex doesn't mess you up like hard drugs.

Having an unexpected/unwanted child sure can, as can STI's like HIV. My point, which I hoped was clear, is that abstinence (whether from drugs, sex, or anything else) is only a workable model at the societal level in theory. In practice we already know that a statistically significant number of people will engage in risky behavior. Harm reduction in the context of sex involves early education, access to condoms, etc. Harm reduction in the context of drugs involves early education, access to quality rehab and mental health services, safe injection sites, etc.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#477
post #145
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Can you please stop posting in the flamewar style to HN? You've been doing it repeatedly in this thread, plus we've had to ask you about this more than once before. We're trying for curious conversation here. Posting aggressively and swipily really kills that. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I apologize, I was getting overly passionate about the topic, I'll rein myself in.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#478

Talk about burying the lede, 11 years ago they privatized their drug oversight operation and cut funding by over 80%. Gee, I wonder if that could have an impact? > After years of economic crisis, Portugal decentralized its drug oversight operation in 2012. A funding drop from 76 million euros ($82.7 million) to 16 million euros ($17.4 million) forced Portugal’s main institution to outsource work previously done by th…

What about the other quotes from the article that have nothing to do with funding... > “When you first back off enforcement, there are not many people walking over the line that you’ve removed. And the public think it’s working really well,” said Keith Humphreys, former senior drug policy adviser in the Obama administration and a professor of psychiatry at Stanford University. “Then word gets out that there’s an open…

Alcohol is an interesting parallel. Probably most people know, or know of someone who is an alcoholic. How many of them want to quit? How many think they have a problem?

It’s not surprising that many addicts of other drugs don’t seek treatment.

It’s like obesity. Just stop eating so much! Just stop drinking! Just stop smoking crack! Just say no!

How well is that going?

Human psychology is nuts. Big is beautiful! Track marks are sexy!

I have no idea how you solve this sort of thing. Does anyone?

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#479
post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tent cities don't exist solely in places without access to housing "Access to housing" isn't enough. You might have "access" to health care but unable to afford it. You need housing as a right - even without payment - alongside enough adequate housing for everyone. And allow folks to do things in their own home. If they cannot do it at their home with other people, the person in question does not have adequate housin…

Life is misery by default, as a natural consequence of life itself. The never ending tyranny of the need to eat and avoid being eaten is the normal state of affairs. Honestly, if a person isn’t up for it, we need to stop trying to convince them to stay around and be miserable. Elective suicide should be a basic right, and drugs are one way out. We only create misery by “helping” people that don’t want hep. Criminaliz…

With new diabetes drugs coming out they found them to have anti-addiction properties from food, smoking to shopping addiction, etc. You might say all these people don't want help but what if we just started putting them on anti-addiction drugs in the future? It could change their whole life, my diabetic mom now also has one of those stickers that tells her when her blood sugar gets too high and now she feels guilty when she eats badly because we all can hear it when her alarm goes off from the sticker and phone app. She also told me when she got on some of these drugs she doesn't feel as hungry anymore and started losing some weight. Her last doctor didn't care about her having diabetes so she didn't either, her new doctor is like, "yeah let's fix this, we'll get rid of this this year". And sometimes just having someone believe you can change makes all the difference.

Also what really makes people struggle with suicide can be quite different then just drug use.

Suicide thinking is an inflammation of the body that happens to all creatures when put under extreme stress. Their body is starting to control their mind. They aren't imagining pain, their body is literally in pain. Figuring what is causing the stress and how to reduce it is key.

Instead of saying oh they don't want to live, look at what is going on with their body. Overworked people get really suicidal would you want to get an exit ramp for them?

A lot of suicidal people also have been through a lot of unprocessed trauma that plain old consulting won't fix (as someone who went to 10 psychologist I personally find most of it useless as well, few people understand CPTSD and in fact I have had some psychologist blaming me for my problems and really badly mislabeling me. I was smart enough not to believe them but a lot of people might not. Most people don't understand what's like to live in bad circumstances for years they just think it's a personality disorder. This psychologist also never even asked if I grew up with a family history of violence because I seemed too normal in some ways. They were really bad at their job but at the time I thought if I could bully myself into changing myself with this psychologist help, maybe I could improve... It's only after some family died I realized what I was actually going through and found a term for it.)

Also by this logic of addicted users don't want to change it's like saying poor people choose to be poor, it's really hard to get out of systems and thought patterns to improve your circumstances. People spiral for a reason and it can be tough to overcome. Also really smart people can still be poor, being born in the wrong country or at the wrong time, or in the wrong circumstances etc etc can make a lot of difference. Having empathy for people and helping them understand themselves can make a lot of difference. I've helped a lot of suicidal people improve their circumstances (though it's hard), and it can be popular to be suicidal as a cultural thing too especially the more disconnected and trapped people feel. With suicide rates increasing you have to understand we have some systemic issues going on, it's not their fault they feel bad most of the time, it's just a bad system they are in, change the system change the people. Especially the youth. Also almost drug use abuse is because people feel disconnected from others. Which is largely a systemic issue now with loneliness shock rocketing.

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