Earlier quoted context omitted.
Would you mind explaining the unstated premise that basic research should in any way should be directly applied to solve real world problems?
Would you mind explaining why you think I said that?
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OpenWorm – A computational model of C. elegans worm
151–159 of 159 posts
Re: OpenWorm – A computational model of C. elegans worm
#152302 neurons doesn’t sound impressive to people who may be used to working with 7B+ parameter neural networks. But those neural networks have about as much in common with a biological neuron as a bicycle had with a horse. They can both travel pretty fast but one evolved naturally through over a billion years of harsh natural selection, and the other is a precisely tuned metal machine with a single purpose. Neurons are…
The best way of looking at it is that a single biological neuron is itself a complex machine full of genetic control circuits that sort of resemble neural networks and most importantly have memory/state that persists over both short and long periods of time. Each neuron is a full-ass living organism that itself is capable of learning and behavior, not a parameter is a model. A virtual "neuron" by contrast is a very s…
The bigger problem is that nobody has any answer for why a mind upload would actually contain your consciousness and not just be a clone with either no qualia or it's own separate conscious experience.
The even bigger issue is when mind uploading people fully admit this issue and try to claim some philosophical reason why it doesn't matter, and we should all be excited about tech to make what amounts to an interactive epitaph.
Re: OpenWorm – A computational model of C. elegans worm
#153Re: OpenWorm – A computational model of C. elegans worm
#154I went to an OpenWorm mini-conference of some kind in London a few years back - a couple of days talking about worm locomotion. Knowing nothing about worms or animal locomotion in general, I was a complete layman with an amateur interest in life simulation and understood next to nothing. But it was still fascinating, and was so cool to meet people passionate about this.
That sounds absolutely amazing! In a similar position to you regarding an amateur interest. I’d have loved to have been there too.
Re: OpenWorm – A computational model of C. elegans worm
#155It's always fun for me to see C. elegans meet software. This is amazing. My undergrad degree capstone project was a flow-based visual C. elegans strain builder[1]. The team worked with two researchers who taught us a lot about genetics and basic C. elegans biology. They are a fascinating model organism, and it was a super fun project to work on. Even though it's got a very small potential userbase, it did have a pote…
>"OH we forgot to tell you about this caveat", then we'd go back to the drawing board, update the schema (thank heavens for migrations), rinse and repeat.
Doesn’t sound that different from standard business software development!
Fascinating project. Really enjoyed reading about it - well done!
Re: OpenWorm – A computational model of C. elegans worm
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
Does this actually become an interesting question at this point? I guess worms don’t have many rights anyway, but if they did, and this was a totally accurate simulation, why not give the digital worm rights?
not interesting for a worm but interesting for a first of its kind
I actually don’t know, are there any ethical guidelines for working with very limited animals like this? I know they are pretty limited intelligence wise, but I would hope the researchers at least kill them in a quick, painless manner when the experiments are done.
I guess if the computer mode really is true on a physical level it is owed the same (minimal) level of decency somehow.
Re: OpenWorm – A computational model of C. elegans worm
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
not interesting for a worm but interesting for a first of its kind
I actually don’t know, are there any ethical guidelines for working with very limited animals like this? I know they are pretty limited intelligence wise, but I would hope the researchers at least kill them in a quick, painless manner when the experiments are done. I guess if the computer mode really is true on a physical level it is owed the same (minimal) level of decency somehow.
My point is: let's discuss this before we simulate more complex life and let's not draw some arbitrary line in the sand or call it all "artificial = not worthy anything".
Re: OpenWorm – A computational model of C. elegans worm
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
I actually don’t know, are there any ethical guidelines for working with very limited animals like this? I know they are pretty limited intelligence wise, but I would hope the researchers at least kill them in a quick, painless manner when the experiments are done. I guess if the computer mode really is true on a physical level it is owed the same (minimal) level of decency somehow.
My point is: let's discuss this before we simulate more complex life and let's not draw some arbitrary line in the sand or call it all "artificial = not worthy anything".
Yeah, I agree, definitely at least that it is an insufficiently explored ethical issue.
I suspect people are just leaning on the intuitive answer (that it is just a computer program), and the fact that we just don’t have the ability to simulate anything that has, like, obvious rights yet. I don’t think the first will really stand up to scrutiny, and the second is clearly a temporary solution (to the extent that it even is a solution).
Re: OpenWorm – A computational model of C. elegans worm
#159As a founding member of OpenWorm, I emulated the connectome and applied it to robotics almost 10 years ago (https://youtu.be/YWQnzylhgHc). In this experiment, each neuron is represented as a single program and uses UDP messaging to communicate between the individual neurons (programs). There was a number of issues I ran into and probably #1 is the fact that connectomes are highly recurrent which in my experiment lead to what I called UDP stacking; i.e. the activations (UDP messages) come in faster than the program can process them.
I have downloaded the complete (so far) Drosphilia connectome and working to create an emulation. I am exploring Hypervectors to emulate neurons or neuropils but still working on the concept. I have tried many other ideas including Adjacency Matrices and Function programming where each Function is some part of the animal nervous system (e.g. with C elegans think Sensory, Interneuron and Motor as 3 distinct functions and programs).
The C elegans emulation was also done in a single Python app, translated to several other programming languages, that also showed clear emulation in many different robots. Ablation tests demonstrated how the emulated nervous system is congruent to the biological nervous system through observable behaviors of both.
There are two extremes on the evolutionary continuum of nervous systems with the worm's brain on one end and the human brain on the other. However, even with the Worm's nervous system, we can clearly see general intelligence and a gateway to AGI.