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Meta releases Intermediate Graphics Library

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Re: Meta releases Intermediate Graphics Library

#201

Post by rcme »

dahart wrote: post #173
rcme wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A photo of a public domain painting is only in the public domain if the photograph wasn't distinct enough from the photographed work. Rendering requires a number of "artistic" choices so I doubt that precedent would apply here. Here is a better explanation from your Wikipedia link: > Bridgeman Art Library v. Corel Corp. [...] which ruled that exact photographic copies of public domain images could not be protected by…

> Rendering requires a number of “artistic” choices so I doubt that precedent would apply here. I wouldn’t speculate on what might fly in court, but while some rendering can require artistic choices, it’s certainly not a requirement for all renderings, and more importantly, the specific renderings in question here are very low on the artistic choices scale; they’re generic screen-captures meant to demonstrate the lib…

What I meant by rendering is not scene staging: lights, camera position, etc. what I meant was that when you implement a rendering engine, you need to make artistic choices. Like when you implement a lightening system, there are a number of decisions you need to make about how it works. Each decision changes how the final lighting looks. That’s why you can pretty much tell when a video game was implemented using UE3: everything is super shiny.

Re: Meta releases Intermediate Graphics Library

#202

Post by flohofwoe »

sgent wrote: post #174
joeld42 wrote: post #43

If you're looking for something like this, Sokol is a much simpler alternative: https://github.com/floooh/sokol It doesn't support vulkan though, but if that's important to you you're probably much better off just using vulkan directly since it's supported on all the major platforms.

Vulkan is not supported on iOS / MacOS, which is the major benefit to this release.

Khronos maintains MoltenVk though, which is as "official" as it gets: https://github.com/KhronosGroup/MoltenVK

...technically, Vulkan on Windows is also only supported via 3rd-parties (the GPU vendors), so the situation isn't actually all that different. The "Vulkan driver" is just bundled with the application on Mac instead of installed separately.

Re: Meta releases Intermediate Graphics Library

#203

Post by flohofwoe »

r2vcap wrote: post #182

If Apple hadn't created Metal, the world would have been better off. Thank you, Meta, for your hard work. Also, there are those who argue that starting new projects in C++ in 2023 is almost always wrong. How about checking out the new C++ library? Do you think your preferred language X would be better than C++ in this situation?

Metal is important because it demonstrates that a modern 3D APIs doesn't have to be a complicated mess.

Re: Meta releases Intermediate Graphics Library

#204

Post by [deleted] »

Roark66 wrote: post #181

It's a nice project, but isn't the majority of the problem it "resolves" already solved by Vulkan? I was under an impression Vulkan runs on everything. However I only used Vulkan (with ncnn) for AI. I don't know how tedious it might be to use it for graphics directly.

[deleted]

Re: Meta releases Intermediate Graphics Library

#205

Post by flohofwoe »

hgs3 wrote: post #66

I understand why WebGPU defined a new API since it's primarily intended for web browsers, however, in this case why create a new API? Why not implement the OpenGL API? Essentially this could have been an OpenGL wrapper over the lower-level API's, e.g. over Vulkan, Metal, and Direct3D 12. OpenGL has the advantage of being an open standard. Did Meta need custom behavior? If so, OpenGL already has a well-defined extensi…

Having worked with OpenGL since around 1998 let me say: it's definitely the worst of all popular 3D APIs, and already has been since around the time D3D7 was released. It's time to let it go the way of the Dodo (just a shame that Vulkan didn't fix the worst OpenGL problem which is the vendor extension zoo).

Re: Meta releases Intermediate Graphics Library

#206

Post by jokoon »

r2vcap wrote: post #182

If Apple hadn't created Metal, the world would have been better off. Thank you, Meta, for your hard work. Also, there are those who argue that starting new projects in C++ in 2023 is almost always wrong. How about checking out the new C++ library? Do you think your preferred language X would be better than C++ in this situation?

I'm curious, how is metal simpler, and is it fair to say metal is simpler when it's only available for apple hardware?

Re: Meta releases Intermediate Graphics Library

#207

Post by flohofwoe »

jokoon wrote: post #206
r2vcap wrote: post #182

If Apple hadn't created Metal, the world would have been better off. Thank you, Meta, for your hard work. Also, there are those who argue that starting new projects in C++ in 2023 is almost always wrong. How about checking out the new C++ library? Do you think your preferred language X would be better than C++ in this situation?

I'm curious, how is metal simpler, and is it fair to say metal is simpler when it's only available for apple hardware?

TL;DR: Metal has a more balanced approach to API design than both Vulkan or D3D12. In general, "programming ergonomics" seems to have been an important design goal, which is something that seems completely absent both in D3D12 and Vulkan (basically, if the Vulkan or D3D12 design teams had to decide between making an API feature more convenient to use for the programmer, or more explicit at the cost of less convenience, then the answer was always "make it explicit", while the Metal design team at least seems to have thought about the consequences for the API user before making a decision - at least that's what it looks like from the outside looking at the resulting APIs).

Metal started with a programming model that looks a lot like what a hypothetical "D3D11 next" could have looked like (basically D3D11 minus the warts, and plus PSOs, command queues and render passes, but keeping the traditional and straightforward slot-based resource binding model).

Later versions then gradually added optional lower-level, more explicit features which allow more control over resource management and accessing specific GPU features with less API overhead, but may also be less convenient to use (and it's not actually just "Apple GPUs", Metal supports Apple devices with Intel, AMD and NVIDIA(?) GPUs just fine - since there were Mac laptops which shipped with those GPUs).

Apple also maintains higher level libraries like MetalKit and SceneKit.

Because of this 'layered approach', a Metal application can just start with the higher level API features to get something running quickly, and then gradually switch to more recent and more explicit Metal features only when needed or desired.

One could also simply say that the Metal team applied common sense, "taste" and a balanced approach to their API design, instead of just mechanically collecting hardware feature requirements from all GPU vendors and trying to cram those into a common low-level API at all cost.

Re: Meta releases Intermediate Graphics Library

#208

Post by dudeinjapan »

pedrosorio wrote: post #145
dudeinjapan wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pre-rendered their were. Vaguely reminds me of Myst or FF7 quality.

For those reading who may not remember or have played the original FF7, here are links to pre-rendered backgrounds in FF7: https://www.jmeiners.com/pre-rendered-backgrounds/img/ff7.jp... and the image in the article about Meta's library: https://www.khronos.org/assets/uploads/blogs/2023-july-blog-...

Not apples-to-apples because FF7 was NTSC resolution and heavily compressed.

If FF7 were rendered at the same resolution, I think it would be comparable. Here's an FF7 AI upscale mod for reference:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/a-full-high-res-ai-upscale-...

Re: Meta releases Intermediate Graphics Library

#209

Post by bannedbybros »

skissane wrote: post #156
ndesaulniers wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Not if we have anything to say about that!" ~ Disney Lawyers and Lobbyists anxious to extend copywriter protections again

The general consensus is that the current Congress is much less amenable to that lobbying than Congress was back in 1998, the last time US copyright terms were extended – and that Disney realises that, so they aren't seriously pursuing it this time around. One reason is that supporters of the public domain are much better organised than in the 1990s, and their cause has become a lot more popular and mainstream. For e…

[dead]

Re: Meta releases Intermediate Graphics Library

#210

Post by WillAdams »

sangnoir wrote: post #183
WillAdams wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but Disney also had a Registered Trademark on Mickey Mouse, so any usage of the photo has to be in accordance with that representation.

But I can still add a "(c) My Name" on the image, which is the question at hand

Having copyright does not serve as an exemption for the limitations of trademark/trade dress.
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