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Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

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Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#131

Post by RoyalHenOil »

boringuser2 wrote: post #118
wesselbindt wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and are often recreational drug users themselves (i.e. too close to the issue) I think this is an interesting thought. As a recreational drug user myself (I drink alcohol sometimes), I do indeed feel like drugs should be legalized, so as to enable regulation. But I don't feel like me dealing with the subject in my day to day life should have a bearing on whether I'm able to have an informed opinion on the matter. It…

Literally everyone opposes rape.

If that were true, there would be no rape.

An estimated 1 in every 16 men, and some non-zero percentage of women, seem to be pretty cool with it (at least as perpetrators).

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#132

Post by RoyalHenOil »

boringuser2 wrote: post #124
wesselbindt wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, me too. However legislation on x (be it rape, recreational drugs, whatever), still requires discussion, and there's always ifs and buts, and the idea that someone involved in x is somehow not someone to be taken seriously on the matter strikes me as wrong.

Its fallacious only if I reject an argument you propose with that logic. Obviously, in the application of a logical argument, you need to respond to logic with logic. That being said, it's also obvious that a criminal isn't really a good authority on the justness of the crime they commit -- we implicitly understand that this is part of the rationalization process for antisocial behaviors. Also, yeah, the rape "analog…

>That being said, it's also obvious that a criminal isn't really a good authority on the justness of the crime they commit...

How is that obvious? It's not at all obvious to me that, for example, MLK Jr was not an authority on the justice of civil disobedience because he himself practiced civil disobedience.

If we disregard the opinions of people who think doing X is justified and therefore proceed to do X, then we bias ourselves toward the opinions of people who oppose X, as they will be overrepresented in the sample of people who choose not to do X.

Such cherry picking is not a logically sound method for developing an honest, unbiased worldview.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#133

Post by justrealist »

palata wrote: post #99
justrealist wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think Portugal really has a lot of ultra-rich people sitting around to fleece?

Do you think nobody is rich in Portugal?

The combined net worth of all billionaires in Portugal[1] is about 10% of annual government spending [2].

So to within a rounding error, no, it's a poor country full of poor people with an irrelevant number of billionaires. You could destroy all foreign investment and future growth by confiscating literally all of their wealth for 1 year of modestly higher government spending.

[1] https://profilbaru.com/article/List_of_Portuguese_by_net_wor..., ignoring people who nominal "citizens" but live and hold money elsewhere.

[2] https://www.statista.com/statistics/275337/government-revenu....

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#134

Post by RoyalHenOil »

za3faran wrote: post #105
standardUser wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get it. Someone smoking something doesn't bother me, unless maybe if I can smell it, then it bothers me very, very slightly. The same way someone drinking a beer in public doesn't bother me. How could it? If sleeping on the street is a crime, enforce that crime. Don't pretend that if we magically banned all of the hypothetical reasons people might commit that crime that it will eliminate that crime. We can't…

> Someone smoking something doesn't bother me, unless maybe if I can smell it, then it bothers me very, very slightly. Read up about the dangers of second and third degree smoking. > The same way someone drinking a beer in public doesn't bother me. How could it? Perhaps those who've had family or friends killed by drunk driving or drunken homicide might have something else to say.

>Perhaps those who've had family or friends killed by drunk driving or drunken homicide might have something else to say.

A guy I used to date was rear-ended while waiting at a red light by someone who was texting while driving. It was an extremely serious wreck (the person who hit him did not brake at all, ge was so absorbed in his phone), and my ex was lucky to survive it.

But people texting on their phones in public places doesn't bother him. He is not in favor of making SMS illegal. That would be utterly absurd.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#136

Post by cscurmudgeon »

arcticbull wrote: post #63
cscurmudgeon wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...how about basic human empathy? How about empathy from your side? I have lost a friend due to addiction despite "care". The best solution is not being exposed to some classes of drugs at all and fixing other issues that cause this.

> How about empathy from your side? I have lost a friend due to addiction despite "care". The best solution is not being exposed to some classes of drugs at all. Maybe that's true, but the genie isn't going back into the bottle as like 50 years of the 'war on drugs' has so clearly demonstrated. The war on drugs started 18 June 1971 with Richard Nixon's declaration that drug abuse is “public enemy number one.” At this…

Think of the War on Drugs like a baked good. Just because we have failed attempting it doesn't mean we go around declaring we'll never try again! It just means we try harder.

Joking aside, look at Singapore for a success case.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#137

Post by cscurmudgeon »

scarface_74 wrote: post #92
cscurmudgeon wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...how about basic human empathy? How about empathy from your side? I have lost a friend due to addiction despite "care". The best solution is not being exposed to some classes of drugs at all and fixing other issues that cause this.

> The best solution is not being exposed to some classes of drugs at all and fixing other issues that cause this. Yes we should have a “War on Drugs”? What could possibly go wrong?

Maybe look at Singapore and other places where it went right?

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#138

Post by cscurmudgeon »

EA-3167 wrote: post #62
cscurmudgeon wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...how about basic human empathy? How about empathy from your side? I have lost a friend due to addiction despite "care". The best solution is not being exposed to some classes of drugs at all and fixing other issues that cause this.

[flagged]

No, what does that have to do with drugs?

Sex doesn't mess you up like hard drugs.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#139

Post by cscurmudgeon »

_a_a_a_ wrote: post #83
cscurmudgeon wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...how about basic human empathy? How about empathy from your side? I have lost a friend due to addiction despite "care". The best solution is not being exposed to some classes of drugs at all and fixing other issues that cause this.

> I have lost a friend due to addiction So have I. The drug was alcohol. Adults make choices and live with the consequences. shrug

That is ok, but what is not okay is making rest of society support those consequences.

Think of it abstractly like refusing vaccination. You messing up your life has outbound consequences for others (even if no money is spent on you).

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