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Call yourself a 'brogrammer'? Then get the hell away from me.

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Re: Call yourself a 'brogrammer'? Then get the hell away from me.

#91

Post by coderdude »

DarkShikari wrote: post #4

From Urban Dictionary: brogrammer, n.: A programmer who breaks the usual expectations of quiet nerdiness and opts instead for the usual trappings of a frat-boy: popped collars, bad beer, and calling everybody "bro". Despised by everyone, especially other programmers. Ex: Oh my god, John is talking about football and chicks again. That guy is such a brogrammer. See also: programmer, frat boy, bro, douchebag, developer…

Part of it can come from who you've grown up around. To draw from my own experience, I think I've had one technically inclined IRL friend ever. Everyone else has been a non-developer/designer, non-programmer, or barely computer literate. What happened to me was at age 10 we got a computer and I've been absolutely obsessed with creation ever since.

This led to mannerisms, interests, and an external appearance adapted from my peers, but also to a quiet (though dominant) side of me that spends 20 of 24 hours each day pounding away at my keyboard. If I ever came across another programmer in the wild I'm not sure how I would be received.

It's weird to not fit in anywhere. But these guys just sound like douchebags.

Truth be told this 'us vs. them' is a relic of the Revenge of the Nerds days. Saying things like "no you're a bro you can't be one of us" or yelling "neeerrrrrrds" is exactly the same thing. As time wears on, the techs will seem to get less awkward and the bros will seems to get less "bro-y." It's the convergence that occurs once the social stigma of the 80s has worn off.

It should be noted though that tech conversation and "testosterversation" are really difficult to mix. If you're in one mode you don't want to keep switching back to the other.

Re: Call yourself a 'brogrammer'? Then get the hell away from me.

#92

Post by phwd »

There are two things that needs to be defined here (Well three if you include how media never portrays the story as it was interviewed, media always searches for the dramatical pitch [1])

The first is that of the Brogramming meme. The definition at Urban Dictionary is a joke in itself. It's a joke accept it, don't accept it. No developer in their right mind goes around proclaiming that they are a brogrammer and if they are saying that they are serious (like some say in the case of Facebook and Zynga) you are being deceived [2].

There is a second definition which that I think everyone clumps with this meme and that is of the asshole/douchebag/sexist employee. He is everywhere. Not just in software development. These individuals are the ones making the majority of sexist comments, makes sexist jokes while a female employee is in a cubicle nearby, trying to hit on female coworkers during work hours and going to bars every night. They have existed long before any reference to Brogramming.

Now, I will say this. It was not smart of this individual to try advertise the meme to the SfGate readership. Just based on the prefix "bro" alone will bring about perception of sexism even if the original intent was not to be.

[1]: http://www.facebook.com/ariadoss/posts/305742279480205 [2]: http://www.facebook.com/getwiththebrogram/posts/373108606051...

Re: Call yourself a 'brogrammer'? Then get the hell away from me.

#94

Post by neutronicus »

_delirium wrote: post #24
jiggy2011 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem is , if this catches on with recruiters who will use it very non ironically like "rockstar". How long until we see "Brogrammer needed" ads

Now that I think of it, there was actually a YC company's recruiting post on HN that used it (not entirely clear how seriously), which created a bit of a backlash: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3168038 I think it's probably not a good recruiting strategy, because it telegraphs both that this might be a problematic opening for women, and that anyone worried they'll be deemed too egghead/nerdy might want to pass.…

I'm not sure if I agree with you.

I think a lot of people are repulsed by the idea of spending a career surrounded by the "programmer" stereotype (i.e. monomaniacal, male, introverts). Part of me wonders whether advertising a more traditionally social work environment might not attract a lot of talent that doesn't fit the "programmer" mold (including women!).

Re: Call yourself a 'brogrammer'? Then get the hell away from me.

#95

Post by codeonfire »

cop359 wrote: post #81
codeonfire wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There has always been a problem in STEM jobs where people try to use social manipulation rather than technical achievement to get ahead. With brogrammer, people are trying to convince employers to exclude certain classes of employees such as women or non-social people. Then it becomes a race to the bottom of who fits the stereotype the best rather than rhe most qualified, and technical people end up taking orders fro…

I think you've got it backwards. There is definitely a degree of pride associated with being nerdy and non-social to the exclusion of "brogrammers". Try getting a technical job as with a popped collar. Even if you are technically very proficient, there is stigma and distrust from people like the author of the article

Of course there is distrust, and it is unlikely that hiring based on social behavior is going to make a successful company. I'm merely pointing out that some misguided people are trying to change the business environment to their advantage. I didn't say they are or will be successful. If we describe the status quo, it will be the same as it always been, engineering requires strong, real skills for success. Companies that have unskilled management or people who "bro'd" their way into a high level position are going to have a hard time finding success, but we have to acknowledge there are real companies out there that are taking brogramming seriously.

Re: Call yourself a 'brogrammer'? Then get the hell away from me.

#96

Post by rickmb »

swang wrote: post #75
sebphfx wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I m gonna bring back punk into programming.It needs more of it.

We already have that: People who don't declare good variable names, people who don't follow DRY, creating spaghetti code. That's like the punk of programming.

Funny enough, almost every programmer I've ever met that I would identify as "punk" was seriously into coding craftsmanship. Nothing punk about their code.

Re: Call yourself a 'brogrammer'? Then get the hell away from me.

#97

Post by tomjen3 »

jessedhillon wrote: post #33
_bbs wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there really a problem with nerds being groomed well and fashionably dressed? The people they describe are off-putting because of their attitude, not because their appearance clashes with the archetypal image of a nerd.

What's common with all those behaviors he described is that the way they are usually carried, and the predictable "maleness" with which they are chosen, create an air of trying way too hard -- this is something I defintely experience when meeting many programmers. The irony is that the most defining characteristic of authentic masculinity, for most women I know, is the sense that a man believes in hemself and does wh…

Fake it till you make it. That is pretty much the advice given to people in unfamiliar social situations. It doesn't work in technical areas (where it is rightfully laughed at as cargo cult coding) but it does work in social situations.

Re: Call yourself a 'brogrammer'? Then get the hell away from me.

#98

Post by gte910h »

DarkShikari wrote: post #4

From Urban Dictionary: brogrammer, n.: A programmer who breaks the usual expectations of quiet nerdiness and opts instead for the usual trappings of a frat-boy: popped collars, bad beer, and calling everybody "bro". Despised by everyone, especially other programmers. Ex: Oh my god, John is talking about football and chicks again. That guy is such a brogrammer. See also: programmer, frat boy, bro, douchebag, developer…

The odd thing is, I've never met a guy in a fraternity like this.

Re: Call yourself a 'brogrammer'? Then get the hell away from me.

#99

Post by mykolasmith »

The fact that anyone is talking about any of this speaks volumes about how skewed some people's priorities are. The author of this article comes across as a whiny bitch, and the author of the article in question comes across as a douche-bag. Can we get back to discussing meaningful topics?

Re: Call yourself a 'brogrammer'? Then get the hell away from me.

#100

Post by doktrin »

cop359 wrote: post #81
codeonfire wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There has always been a problem in STEM jobs where people try to use social manipulation rather than technical achievement to get ahead. With brogrammer, people are trying to convince employers to exclude certain classes of employees such as women or non-social people. Then it becomes a race to the bottom of who fits the stereotype the best rather than rhe most qualified, and technical people end up taking orders fro…

I think you've got it backwards. There is definitely a degree of pride associated with being nerdy and non-social to the exclusion of "brogrammers". Try getting a technical job as with a popped collar. Even if you are technically very proficient, there is stigma and distrust from people like the author of the article

It's hardly irrational to distrust someone clueless enough to go into a job interview with a popped collar. This isn't really limited to the tech world.
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