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Science and Religion Have Never Been Enemies

williampoulos.substack.com

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Re: Science and Religion Have Never Been Enemies

#71

Post by defrost »

m-theory wrote: post #67
defrost wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. However you specifically asked about Flat Earthers .. and while I won't deny there are some genuine believers in a flat earth out there my experience is that most self described flat earthers with actual university engineering degrees from modern western culture are glorious LARP'ers keeping a straight face and pulling legs. Much as I believe in a hyperbolic inverted universe within a hollow earth. I mean, the…

Maybe I should have used a better example then. Like Newton and alchemy maybe? My point was more you can be intelligent, educated, etc. and still have dumb beliefs. I agree with you about the flat earther stuff. Funnily enough, I used to work on a project called Hollow Earth. That team loved to joke around with conspiracy theories.

Newton the last alchemist is a good example.

> dumb beliefs.

You sure about that though? There was no stone capable of turn base metal into gold - that knowledge of atomic transition via fission and fusion came later - but

( important point here )

a large amount of 'alchemy' worked just fine .. you followed the process and the stuff claimed happened just as the recipe said.

It did transform into what we now call chemistry.

Re: Science and Religion Have Never Been Enemies

#72

Post by jononomo »

Zickzack wrote: post #31
jononomo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the "money talks, bullshit walks" perspective is what is kicking atheism out the door. The existence of life is absolutely overwhelming proof of the existence of a creative God. I suggest you read the book "The Stairway To Life: An Origin-Of-Life Reality Check" by Tan and Stadler. I'm well aware that you'll be able to try and snow the discussion with two dozen "citations" that will all be dead-end rabbit holes,…

Let us assume there were no reasonable explanation for the origin of life. Yet, "there is no reasonable explanation of life, hence god exists" would still be a non sequitur. You have to brush up your Logic, and it is not meant as a 'take that'. If you want to do yourself a favor, try your skills on "there is no reasonable explanation of life, hence Zeus exists". Or Allah, if it helps. Worse yet, you are peddling the…

There is a reasonable explanation for the origin of life: a creative God. As for Zeus vs Allah, etc, I'm just not interested. Everyone knows God has ten thousand times ten thousand names and is in any case beyond our comprehension.

Of course I'm biting the bullet on God of the Gaps -- the question of the origin of life is the only interesting question in the universe, since without life no other question arises. When I write my book on this subject I will title it "The God of the Gap".

Now explain why you constantly appeal to a materialism of the gaps.

Re: Science and Religion Have Never Been Enemies

#73

Post by lgvln »

dragonwriter wrote: post #42
lgvln wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a distinction between 'what Christians believe' and 'what the Bible claims'. The creation narrative in Genesis : either "the Bible is sacred and wholly true/correct" OR "the theory of evolution is true/correct". If the Bible can be wrong about the nature of the universe (as the Church was wrong about heliocentricism during Galileo's time), then surely it can be wrong about any number of issues.

> If the Bible can be wrong about the nature of the universe (as the Church was wrong about heliocentricism during Galileo's time), then surely it can be wrong about any number of issues. “The Bible can be wrong about any number of issues, just not, when understood properly, about faith and morals” is a not-uncommon Christian position. That it is simple, self-contained, ibtended literally, and correct on every factua…

The amount of cognitive dissonance required to maintain the beliefs 'the Bible can be mistaken about many issues' and 'it is never mistaken on issues pertaining to faith and morality' never ceases to amaze.

> a rather novel opinion

It's remarkable how one can evade the inherent contradictions in their position while appearing quite righteous about it.

"I never said the Bible is wholly true (and I will not address its inherent contradictions) so the joke's on you!"

Re: Science and Religion Have Never Been Enemies

#74

Post by jjaken »

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #69
tnecniv wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s what they taught us in Catholic school as a kid. The Old Testament was a combination of parables and oral history before eventually being recorded. Moreover, we were taught that part of the significance of the Crucifixion was that it was to establish a new pact between humans and God, hence Jesus doing away with the old rules and commandments and Jesus commanding that the faith be spread beyond ethnic Jews.

That's very sad, but not so surprising, that Catholic schools would teach things that the Catholic Church has never taught. That's usually one more brick in the wall for kids who leave the faith, because their illusions are shattered by teachers and clergy who don't really believe in Church doctrines, and couldn't be bothered to pass down the Truth to children who are eager to know it.

What are you going on about? That’s all nonsense.

Re: Science and Religion Have Never Been Enemies

#75

Post by cosymoments »

lgvln wrote: post #2

The author conveniently fails to mention Galileo was found guilty of heresy by the Church, forced to retract his Dialogues and lived the rest of his life under house arrest for advocating the Copernican heliocentric model over the doctrinal geocentric model.[0] When one cherry picks evidence like that... [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair

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Re: Science and Religion Have Never Been Enemies

#76

Post by cosymoments »

jononomo wrote: post #9

This is a great piece and I have bought the book. I'm expecting that in the decades ahead we will begin to see conferences on the conflict between science and atheism. Research into the question of the origin of life has put atheism to bed as a serious hypothesis, but there are still many common uneducated people who think atheism is a scientifically viable stance, and this perspective can even be found among academi…

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Re: Science and Religion Have Never Been Enemies

#77

Post by cosymoments »

Zickzack wrote: post #31
jononomo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the "money talks, bullshit walks" perspective is what is kicking atheism out the door. The existence of life is absolutely overwhelming proof of the existence of a creative God. I suggest you read the book "The Stairway To Life: An Origin-Of-Life Reality Check" by Tan and Stadler. I'm well aware that you'll be able to try and snow the discussion with two dozen "citations" that will all be dead-end rabbit holes,…

Let us assume there were no reasonable explanation for the origin of life. Yet, "there is no reasonable explanation of life, hence god exists" would still be a non sequitur. You have to brush up your Logic, and it is not meant as a 'take that'. If you want to do yourself a favor, try your skills on "there is no reasonable explanation of life, hence Zeus exists". Or Allah, if it helps. Worse yet, you are peddling the…

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