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Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

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Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#91

Post by triceratops »

neworbit wrote: post #87
triceratops wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other than religious proscriptions against alcohol, I can't think of any civilization in history that has outright banned any drugs. Were the Romans, Egyptians or Persians especially anti-drug? Any of the ancient Indian or Chinese kingdoms and empires? On the other hand, cannabis has a long tradition of use in ancient India[1]. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_in_India

When the Chinese banned opium the British went to war to reopen that market because it was so profitable https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars It seems like many drugs are banned in various societies today, so I don't quite follow you.

> It seems like many drugs are banned in various societies today, so I don't quite follow you.

OP thinks no "advanced civilization" has ever allowed drugs. Drugs bans enforced by state power only became a thing near the end of the 19th century. That means no advanced civilization existed before then - not the Romans, nor Egyptians, Greeks, Persians, Indians, or Chinese - and countless others. Sounds incorrect to me.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#92

Post by scarface_74 »

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #59
EA-3167 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be acting as though addiction and the issues which give rise to it are somehow not part of society, and therefore should be discarded. Even ignoring why that's wrong, ignoring why letting people slip through the cracks still has an impact on your conception of society... ...how about basic human empathy?

> ...how about basic human empathy? How about empathy from your side? I have lost a friend due to addiction despite "care". The best solution is not being exposed to some classes of drugs at all and fixing other issues that cause this.

> The best solution is not being exposed to some classes of drugs at all and fixing other issues that cause this.

Yes we should have a “War on Drugs”? What could possibly go wrong?

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#93

Post by wesselbindt »

boringuser2 wrote: post #43

People who think drugs should be descriminalized often have no experience with actual criminal justice, and are often recreational drug users themselves (i.e. too close to the issue). It is a conspiracy theory to believe that drug criminalization has a strictly for-profit motive despite near universal adoption as a policy. That is to say, you believe a conspiracy theory casually.

>and are often recreational drug users themselves (i.e. too close to the issue)

I think this is an interesting thought. As a recreational drug user myself (I drink alcohol sometimes), I do indeed feel like drugs should be legalized, so as to enable regulation. But I don't feel like me dealing with the subject in my day to day life should have a bearing on whether I'm able to have an informed opinion on the matter. It's like saying rape victims are too close to rape and therefore their opinions on rape legislation are skewed.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#94

Post by [deleted] »

EA-3167 wrote: post #30
jrvarela56 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment gave me SF vibes. Somewhere in the middle; the answer isn't jailing or ignoring.

The answer is treating it as a medical and social problem, it's a known solution, it just costs money and Portugal decided in 2012 to cheap out on it, outsource it, and then act shocked when it went wrong.

[deleted]

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#95

Post by scarface_74 »

jasonhansel wrote: post #89
EA-3167 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh well? When the alternative being supported is, "Return to an expensive and inhumane model of frequent and revolving incarceration" I can't say that bothers me much. I'm also fairly sure that seeing a homeless junkie skin up isn't exactly an advertisement for the lifestyle.

There are options between "an inhumane system of frequent and revolving incarceration" and "never punishing public drug use under any circumstances."

And what is that option that doesn’t involve the Justice system targeting minorities and the police not killing people for trying to sell a single cigarette.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#96

Post by themitigating »

vngzs wrote: post #10
virgildotcodes wrote: post #7

Talk about burying the lede, 11 years ago they privatized their drug oversight operation and cut funding by over 80%. Gee, I wonder if that could have an impact? > After years of economic crisis, Portugal decentralized its drug oversight operation in 2012. A funding drop from 76 million euros ($82.7 million) to 16 million euros ($17.4 million) forced Portugal’s main institution to outsource work previously done by th…

Indeed. They slashed funding to successful parts of the strategy and now claim the strategy failed. A convenient narrative for politicians, but hardly truth.

[flagged]

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#97

Post by palata »

lolinder wrote: post #45
palata wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe a first step would be to prevent the ultra rich to get even richer.

Preventing the rich from getting richer does nothing in and of itself to help the poor. You might do things to help the poor that as a side effect make it harder to accrue absurd amounts of wealth, but if your goal from the outset is simply to eliminate all billionaires, there are lots of ways to do that that will only end up hurting the poor as well.

Can we reasonably assume that in the idea of "looking at the ultra rich to help solving poverty", there is fundamentally an idea that... well... it should be done in a way that will help poverty?

Or was it that unclear that I was talking about solving poverty, with the idea that all the money that goes for ultra rich could actually be distributed better?

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#98

Post by jurynulifcation »

throwawa14223 wrote: post #85
dist-epoch wrote: post #11

Drugs should be sold at the grocery store, no question asked. They should be cheap too. That would solve the drug problem.

The amount of people I want consuming recreational PCP around me is 0.

Why should your preference impact my right to my body and what I put into it? That is downright psychotic. You mean to tell me that if someone simply takes PCP near you and does not in any way harm you, you would like for their fundamental human privileges violently stripped from them? Now, if someone takes PCP and is then a public nuisance, that should be dealt with. But it should be dealt with because they are being a public nuisance, not because you disagree with what they have put into their body.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#99

Post by palata »

justrealist wrote: post #51
palata wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe a first step would be to prevent the ultra rich to get even richer.

Do you think Portugal really has a lot of ultra-rich people sitting around to fleece?

Do you think nobody is rich in Portugal?

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#100

Post by jasonhansel »

scarface_74 wrote: post #95
jasonhansel wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are options between "an inhumane system of frequent and revolving incarceration" and "never punishing public drug use under any circumstances."

And what is that option that doesn’t involve the Justice system targeting minorities and the police not killing people for trying to sell a single cigarette.

Maybe a system of law enforcement that doesn't kill people for trying to sell a single cigarette? That seems achievable.
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