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Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#21

Post by KerrAvon »

mandelbrotwurst wrote: post #9
gumballindie wrote: post #6

Loads of proposals, all missing the obvious: solve poverty. Portugal and south Europe in general suffer greatly from it. Stats make the region look good on paper but reality is very different.

> solve poverty How?

give people money so they can buy food, clothing, and shelter.

there are solutions that have worked in the past. the problem is the US center-right doesn't like them because they can be abused, and it's far worse for one person in a million to have something given to them that they don't deserve than for a million people to be helped.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#22

Post by isaacremuant »

Reeks of lobbying/meddling by those who didn't profit from the "human first" approach.

There's a great debate between grenn greenwald and the Bush drug Czar on this topic.

Pros and cons end up firmly on Portugal and Glenn's side, but it's not the side of fear or profit.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#23

Post by EA-3167 »

jasonhansel wrote: post #18
EA-3167 wrote: post #4

I love it, the entire argument of this article boils down to, "A problem with visibility" rather than any failure of the policy. As though an existing problem being visible isn't societal pressure to better address the problem. Oh they also present statistics contained to the 2019-2023 period as though that wasn't pandemic-driven.

The issue is that making a behavior more visible tends to normalize it.

Oh well? When the alternative being supported is, "Return to an expensive and inhumane model of frequent and revolving incarceration" I can't say that bothers me much. I'm also fairly sure that seeing a homeless junkie skin up isn't exactly an advertisement for the lifestyle.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#24

Post by jrvarela56 »

personjerry wrote: post #12

> Porto’s police have increased patrols to drug-plagued neighborhoods. But given existing laws, there’s only so much they can do. On a recent afternoon, an emaciated man in striped pants sleeping in front of a state-funded drug-use center awoke to a patrol of four officers. He sat up, then defiantly began assembling his crack pipe. Officers walked on, shaking their heads. What were they supposed to in a different cou…

Your comment gave me SF vibes. Somewhere in the middle; the answer isn't jailing or ignoring.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#25

Post by KerrAvon »

EA-3167 wrote: post #20
pxue wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, solve housing.

So to solve one incredibly hard problem humanity has never solved... you need to first solve another incredibly hard problem? Well shit, get on it Portugal! /s

indeed, link hands everybody, and chant with me the centrist anthem: better things aren't possible and we should just give up! better things aren't possible and we should just give up! better things aren't possible and we should just give up!

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#26

Post by EA-3167 »

KerrAvon wrote: post #25
EA-3167 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So to solve one incredibly hard problem humanity has never solved... you need to first solve another incredibly hard problem? Well shit, get on it Portugal! /s

indeed, link hands everybody, and chant with me the centrist anthem: better things aren't possible and we should just give up! better things aren't possible and we should just give up! better things aren't possible and we should just give up!

I think there's a vast gulf between abject pessimism, and the sort of useless optimism encapsulated in the casual statement, "Solve poverty" don't you? If someone asked you how people could live longer, you wouldn't be helpfully engaging if the response was, "Solve death."

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#27

Post by JimtheCoder »

personjerry wrote: post #12

> Porto’s police have increased patrols to drug-plagued neighborhoods. But given existing laws, there’s only so much they can do. On a recent afternoon, an emaciated man in striped pants sleeping in front of a state-funded drug-use center awoke to a patrol of four officers. He sat up, then defiantly began assembling his crack pipe. Officers walked on, shaking their heads. What were they supposed to in a different cou…

I am not sure they could have done anything different, but that's the point - if law enforcement officers can witness someone doing something illegal, but there is no point in enforcing the law, there is a bigger problem.

Re: Once hailed for decriminalizing drugs, Portugal is now having doubts

#30

Post by EA-3167 »

jrvarela56 wrote: post #24
personjerry wrote: post #12

> Porto’s police have increased patrols to drug-plagued neighborhoods. But given existing laws, there’s only so much they can do. On a recent afternoon, an emaciated man in striped pants sleeping in front of a state-funded drug-use center awoke to a patrol of four officers. He sat up, then defiantly began assembling his crack pipe. Officers walked on, shaking their heads. What were they supposed to in a different cou…

Your comment gave me SF vibes. Somewhere in the middle; the answer isn't jailing or ignoring.

The answer is treating it as a medical and social problem, it's a known solution, it just costs money and Portugal decided in 2012 to cheap out on it, outsource it, and then act shocked when it went wrong.
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