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Call yourself a 'brogrammer'? Then get the hell away from me.

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Re: Call yourself a 'brogrammer'? Then get the hell away from me.

#81

Post by cop359 »

codeonfire wrote: post #53
goldmab wrote: post #11

Why are people so angry? It seems like these guys are mostly just acting silly. I don't think it's particularly interesting or funny or whatever, but that's no reason to be mad at them.

There has always been a problem in STEM jobs where people try to use social manipulation rather than technical achievement to get ahead. With brogrammer, people are trying to convince employers to exclude certain classes of employees such as women or non-social people. Then it becomes a race to the bottom of who fits the stereotype the best rather than rhe most qualified, and technical people end up taking orders fro…

I think you've got it backwards. There is definitely a degree of pride associated with being nerdy and non-social to the exclusion of "brogrammers".

Try getting a technical job as with a popped collar. Even if you are technically very proficient, there is stigma and distrust from people like the author of the article

Re: Call yourself a 'brogrammer'? Then get the hell away from me.

#82

Post by olalonde »

I can see why a lot of people seem to dislike this particular stereotype, but I'd like to remind them they are equally falling prey to stereotypical discrimination when they are looking to hire "geeks" or "nerds". My main OS is Ubuntu, I'm comfortable with half a dozen programming languages, my editor of choice is Vim, I built a Linux distribution for fun, I just wrote a K-means algorithm implementation in Javascript, for fun... Yet, I don't feel I'm either a geek or a nerd. I don't like video games, RPGs, I'm not awkward/shy, I don't particularly care about mangas, anime or whatever makes a geek a geek or a nerd a nerd. To be honest, I don't know why people would want to be associated with two terms that carry heavy negative connotation (according to my own experience and Wikipedia). Perhaps, I am misunderstanding the meaning of those words but does it really matter? Unless, I'm part of a tiny minority, what's the point of using words that are vastly misunderstood? While "geek" and "nerd" are arguably less harmful than "brogrammer", I just wish people would stop using such labels altogether.

Re: Call yourself a 'brogrammer'? Then get the hell away from me.

#83

Post by cop359 »

As someone who actually has bro friends the author has no idea what he's talking about. He's completely misrepresenting bros and is regurgitating stereotypes.

First he gets all pissy about stereotyping nerds as having pocket-protectors and then in the next sentence regurgitates his one dimensional view on what "frat-house culture" is and bros' attitudes towards women.

Re: Call yourself a 'brogrammer'? Then get the hell away from me.

#84

Post by JohnnyBrown »

cbo wrote: post #51

First, let's be clear that the term "brogrammer", tongue-in-cheek or not, is downright misogynistic. But equally problematic are the common beliefs that spawned the term in the first place; that programmers must always be obsessed with technology above all else, and to appreciate things like sports, fashion, or fast cars is somehow "bad" or "uncommon" for programmers. There are a whole host of programmers who despise…

I've never met anyone who refers to himself as a brogrammer. Pretty much all I know about the term is what I get from it's construction and this article.

I take strong issue with the idea that celebrating masculinity is somehow automatically misogynistic. It seems to me that the term has absolutely nothing to do with women.

Re: Call yourself a 'brogrammer'? Then get the hell away from me.

#85

Post by k-mcgrady »

olalonde wrote: post #82

I can see why a lot of people seem to dislike this particular stereotype, but I'd like to remind them they are equally falling prey to stereotypical discrimination when they are looking to hire "geeks" or "nerds". My main OS is Ubuntu, I'm comfortable with half a dozen programming languages, my editor of choice is Vim, I built a Linux distribution for fun, I just wrote a K-means algorithm implementation in Javascript…

I don't think people are saying that programmers should conform to the geek/nerd stereotype. I think the issue is that some programmers are actively trying to conform to the 'bro' stereotype. They seem to think this makes them 'cool' when the 'bro' stereotype is mainly used in a derogatory manner. You should really just be yourself and do good work.

Re: Call yourself a 'brogrammer'? Then get the hell away from me.

#86

Post by radikalus »

jroseattle wrote: post #14

Pretty sure the entire brogrammer meme was meant tongue-in-cheek, and humor aimed directly at developers. Besides, anyone who might actually carry on in brogrammer style would soon learn the acronym CLM -- career limiting maneuver.

Yeah, it's an acutely self critical meme.

I might jokingly label myself a "finance douchebag" but it's more a dig at my peers than an affirmation of the industry's behavior patterns.

The culture was becoming frat-house/locker-room long before the term was coined...(Now is there a feedback loop from memes like this, who knows?)

Getting upset over a meme seems kind of pointless. Plus the internets will always win.

Re: Call yourself a 'brogrammer'? Then get the hell away from me.

#87

Post by hackinthebochs »

cbo wrote: post #51

First, let's be clear that the term "brogrammer", tongue-in-cheek or not, is downright misogynistic. But equally problematic are the common beliefs that spawned the term in the first place; that programmers must always be obsessed with technology above all else, and to appreciate things like sports, fashion, or fast cars is somehow "bad" or "uncommon" for programmers. There are a whole host of programmers who despise…

>First, let's be clear that the term "brogrammer", tongue-in-cheek or not, is downright misogynistic.

No its not. It's a description of an attitude. When used in a job listing as "looking for brogrammers", then that job listing is sexist. The term itself however is not.

Re: Call yourself a 'brogrammer'? Then get the hell away from me.

#88

Post by radikalus »

Vergle wrote: post #78
jfoutz wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finance.

".. bro! Keep your fucking work life balance." ... "This is wall street bitch you don't belong here!" ... "Damn it feels good to be a banker!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROlDmux7Tk4

I forgot all about this

Re: Call yourself a 'brogrammer'? Then get the hell away from me.

#89

Post by kenkam »

DarkShikari wrote: post #4

From Urban Dictionary: brogrammer, n.: A programmer who breaks the usual expectations of quiet nerdiness and opts instead for the usual trappings of a frat-boy: popped collars, bad beer, and calling everybody "bro". Despised by everyone, especially other programmers. Ex: Oh my god, John is talking about football and chicks again. That guy is such a brogrammer. See also: programmer, frat boy, bro, douchebag, developer…

I am somewhat relieved that they have managed to create a new word to describe only a subset of programmers -- I would be ashamed and no longer proud to call myself a programmer if this becomes widespread...

... and you don't have to be a bro to have fun.

Re: Call yourself a 'brogrammer'? Then get the hell away from me.

#90

Post by Aloisius »

Vergle wrote: post #74
cbo wrote: post #51

First, let's be clear that the term "brogrammer", tongue-in-cheek or not, is downright misogynistic. But equally problematic are the common beliefs that spawned the term in the first place; that programmers must always be obsessed with technology above all else, and to appreciate things like sports, fashion, or fast cars is somehow "bad" or "uncommon" for programmers. There are a whole host of programmers who despise…

At the first sentence I was like "..really?" then you were like "DHH ... enjoys fashion" and my head exploded. He dresses like a high school kid.

We must realize that Ed Hardy under button up shirts two sizes too large is considered fashionable by some people. I've never met them, but I'm sure they exist.
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