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Why I Hate Frameworks (2005)

factoryfactoryfactory.net

11–20 of 407 posts

Re: Why I Hate Frameworks (2005)

#11
post #5

Simplicity is easy to mandate: "just use simple tools!". It's not always obvious when the finished product looks wonky and slanted and has to be retrofitted several times that the complexity was always there, in the world. The complexity in our tools is hopefully there to help with some complexity in the world. In my experience, it's always the junior who shouts "This could all be so much simpler!".

You don’t believe it because you’ve never seen it. Some of us have. And it never comes for free.

Re: Why I Hate Frameworks (2005)

#12
post #5

Simplicity is easy to mandate: "just use simple tools!". It's not always obvious when the finished product looks wonky and slanted and has to be retrofitted several times that the complexity was always there, in the world. The complexity in our tools is hopefully there to help with some complexity in the world. In my experience, it's always the junior who shouts "This could all be so much simpler!".

> In my experience, it's always the junior who shouts "This could all be so much simpler!". Yeah, this is true. But I often wonder how much of this is because the seniors have given up on simplicity and since they have internalized the complexity it doesn't bother them anymore.

> Yeah, this is true. But I often wonder how much of this is because the seniors have given up on simplicity and since they have internalized the complexity it doesn't bother them anymore.

I've seen this first-hand. It makes for a bad experience and a demoralized, ineffective team.

Re: Why I Hate Frameworks (2005)

#14
post #5

Simplicity is easy to mandate: "just use simple tools!". It's not always obvious when the finished product looks wonky and slanted and has to be retrofitted several times that the complexity was always there, in the world. The complexity in our tools is hopefully there to help with some complexity in the world. In my experience, it's always the junior who shouts "This could all be so much simpler!".

> In my experience, it's always the junior who shouts "This could all be so much simpler!".

Or the actual senior engineer, as opposed to the mid-level engineer with a senior title. It's the ones in the middle that really love adding in the complexity - you have to relearn how to prune it back out.

Re: Why I Hate Frameworks (2005)

#15

I want a version of this satire where they only sell hammer subscriptions, but to get the hammer the guy actually wants he needs to buy an Extended Hand Tools subscription that auto renews and costs as much in three months as buying the original hammer would have.

It's not a hammer subscription, it's hammering-as-a-service. You ship them the nails and wood, they ship you back the nails hammered into the wood. You don't have to worry about the complexity of storing or using a hammer anymore, let alone the difficulty of selecting the right hammer, it all just works. They charge extra to sell you the nails and wood, to avoid the complexity of packing and shipping your nails and wood.

Re: Why I Hate Frameworks (2005)

#16

The worst part of this kind of thing is that young carpenters honestly, really, truly, just need to learn to use a hammer. They can't even conceive of the problems that are being solved by the hammer factory, let alone the factory factory. But in the world of the factory factory factory, the apprentice carpenter (who really just wanted to drive a few nails) is now faced with trying to understand the gargantuan comple…

> the carpenter might find themselves awfully tempted to take a ball peen hammer to someone's face. But sadly, they don't know where to get one or how to use it.

...and that's how the the factory factory factory also provides immediate safety and security benefits!

/s

Re: Why I Hate Frameworks (2005)

#17
post #5

Simplicity is easy to mandate: "just use simple tools!". It's not always obvious when the finished product looks wonky and slanted and has to be retrofitted several times that the complexity was always there, in the world. The complexity in our tools is hopefully there to help with some complexity in the world. In my experience, it's always the junior who shouts "This could all be so much simpler!".

> In my experience, it's always the junior who shouts "This could all be so much simpler!".

20+ years later and I’m still saying this. Quite possible I’m still the junior in terms of skill though.

Re: Why I Hate Frameworks (2005)

#20
This must be a Java joke I'm too C++ to understand.

But I was actually hoping for a factory automation online game because I feel like I need to sink the next 2 - 14 days of my life into a shapez.io or mindustry or something like that...

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