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Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

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Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#181

Post by fruffy »

lordloki wrote: post #178
fruffy wrote: post #30

A big part of the reason these unionization efforts are happening: https://csstipendrankings.org/ Many universities are not paying a living wage for the area they are located in.

If you include tuition at the rate undergrads pay it as part of the compensation then they are paid much more than the median wage. Average annual tuition alone for many research universities is higher than the median annual wage.

For the vast majority of the degree, PhDs are not taking any classes (often, they are not even allowed to). They are just workers who either teach or research. The tuition is usually an accounting trick used by colleges/universities for tax and visa sponsorship purposes. Although faculty typically has to cover a PhD's tuition, factoring it in as pay is a little disingenuous.

If tuition was not waived, PhDs would not even apply. The way the PhD is set up in the US is a little byzantine. Other countries (Canada, continental Europe) do have normal employment contracts and benefits.

Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#182

Post by smugma »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #140
ASpring wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was great for us at UC Santa Cruz. The reason I had healthcare during grad school was because the union won it right before I joined. The reason they have a housing stipend now (in the most expensive rental market in the US[1]) is because the union fought for a cost-of-living allowance. We at UCSC didn't always agree with the course of the larger UAW 2685 but they did a lot for us. I'm not sure what the system was…

I'm confused. The article that you linked says San Francisco is the most expensive rental market. However, you speak about UC Santa Cruz. The campus is about 120 km south. It's a totally different rental market. Do I misunderstand?

First line: “Santa Cruz County has vaulted over the San Francisco area as the most expensive market in the country for renters”

Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#183

Post by starcraft2wol »

EatingWithForks wrote: post #34
CraigRo wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Caused huge attrition of the 1st and 2nd year stem students (i.e. quit with a masters). The union was dominated by humanities students, and they fought for what they wanted, not what the overall membership wanted. Very few STEM folks had any interest in being part of the union, but because so many voted with their feet, it was hopeless to set up a decertifiying petition.

TBH the way you explain it sounds to me like 1st and 2nd year stem students were disengaged and uninterested in solidarity with their academic peers who have less options than them. I'm not even particularly fond of the humanities I just don't understand why you wouldn't fight for the allowance for your peers to start families, god damn!

> uninterested in solidarity

They always pitch the union as a way for you to get better pay and benefits. But the talk can suddenly shift to how you are a greedy opportunist if you actually take steps to increase your value.

Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#184

Post by seanmcdirmid »

labcomputer wrote: post #149
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

STEM grad students often have much bigger stipends than humanities grad students given that STEM is more well funded. It sounds like the union simply equalized things, although I’m not sure how that would work with DARPA or similar funding agencies, since RA salaries are taken out of grants (maybe just raise overhead to redistribute more funding to humanities, but grants have caps on overhead as well), so maybe just…

> STEM grad students often have much bigger stipends than humanities grad students given that STEM is more well funded. That was the opposite of my experience, actually.

What school did you go to? In my grad school, there was very little money for humanities students, and they had to compete for TA positions. STEM money wasn't much of a problem, and most grad students could be RAs, and the opposite problem occurred (they were short on TAs).

Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#185

Post by uoaei »

ars wrote: post #154
uoaei wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you familiar with the concept of democracy? This may seem like a tongue-in-cheek response, but I believe addressing this question in good faith will lead you to the answers you seek.

You didn't answer the question: Did the people who voted "no" also win the vote? And are they not part of the union?

Because the question makes no sense. Unions are not just "bunch of people" but also the set of organizational principles, processes, and social-political capital that it represents. The union won the election.

I agree with the sibling comment that the title is poorly worded.

Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#186

Post by 6D794163636F756 »

EatingWithForks wrote: post #34
CraigRo wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Caused huge attrition of the 1st and 2nd year stem students (i.e. quit with a masters). The union was dominated by humanities students, and they fought for what they wanted, not what the overall membership wanted. Very few STEM folks had any interest in being part of the union, but because so many voted with their feet, it was hopeless to set up a decertifiying petition.

TBH the way you explain it sounds to me like 1st and 2nd year stem students were disengaged and uninterested in solidarity with their academic peers who have less options than them. I'm not even particularly fond of the humanities I just don't understand why you wouldn't fight for the allowance for your peers to start families, god damn!

One of main uw campus, Madison, doesn't allow cs masters students. You are brought in as a PhD then allowed to leave when you've achieved your masters. This also causes attrition rates in those programs to skew low. Walked gutted a lot of funding for the programs and made it so the university couldn't find new sources of revenue. These factors definitely impacted the ability for students to finish phds

Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#187

Post by rnk »

extasia wrote: post #179
rnk wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Female problems? Are you serious, that is a pretty negative way to describe health issues that might apply only to women. Why would you put it that way, it's just kind of dismissive.

How would you have put it, rnk?

Health concerns?

Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#188

Post by e63f67dd-065b »

theGnuMe wrote: post #176
e63f67dd-065b wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The numbers for the MIT living wage calculator are completely wrong for most PhD students. For one, they include thing like social security taxes, which students do not pay. They overestimate medical costs, because most PhD students are young and will not have health complications that drive costs. The rent estimate is based on single-occupancy units, which doesn't make sense because most live with roommates ( https:…

Students pay taxes, Reagan did that.

Students are exempt from social security. Yes they pay income taxes, but not FICA.

Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#189

Post by e63f67dd-065b »

light_hue_1 wrote: post #148
e63f67dd-065b wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The numbers for the MIT living wage calculator are completely wrong for most PhD students. For one, they include thing like social security taxes, which students do not pay. They overestimate medical costs, because most PhD students are young and will not have health complications that drive costs. The rent estimate is based on single-occupancy units, which doesn't make sense because most live with roommates ( https:…

This is some nonsense. It's not an overestimate at all. Grad students do have health issues. I know plenty who do. Actually. I have never had a PhD student who did not have some major health issue in their 5-6 years. Many grad students have families. They can't live with 6 other people in a unit. They have childcare. Rent is extremely expensive around MIT. Even a room in a larger unit will easily run you 1.5k or more…

Do you disupte any of the things I mentioned? Yes, obviously PhD students with kids and health issues exist, but on average, PhD students are younger, healthier, pay less taxes, qualify for more benefits, and don't have children. The MIT estimate is based on all the above not being true, but that's simply not reflective of the PhD student population.

Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#190

Post by manvillej »

Atreiden wrote: post #7

Good for them! Academia is a toxic and broken environment, and this seems like a great first step in fixing it. Interested to see how the dynamic plays out at Stanford, and if other American universities follow suit.

Grad student unionization is already well on its way in the US. It started strong in the 90s. It was hamstrung because grad students weren't recognized as workers in 2004 by the NLRB; that was overturned in 2016. Since then, graduate student unions have been having some massive contract wins.

Its a pretty complex & shifting situation historically. In fact, its illegal to have a grad student union in some states for public universities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graduate_student_employee_unio...

It is a growing movement in academia: Harvard(2018), Yale(2022), NYU(1998), BU, Brandeis, Tufts, UMass Amherst(1991), Columbia(2017), UPenn(2016), Brown(2014), Stanford(yesterday, not even joking), UNC(?), etc. Duke is unionizing like right now

Grad student unions are such a large body of new union members that the UAW has done some weird things to dilute their power in the UAW. like splitting NYU and Columbia into different locals. They're some of the largest inductions of new members in NLRB history.

Its a pretty fascinating history and on going movement

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