Live data from Hacker News

Mechanical Turk workers are using AI to automate being human

techcrunch.com

41–50 of 169 posts

Re: Mechanical Turk workers are using AI to automate being human

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a feeling that some types of data will become a bit like "the DNA wealth of the rainforest", valuable because it's so rich, different and rare. In particular small and/or dying human languages. Languages carry with them an immense amount of information, from all the precious human experiences that have shaped them.

Languages at fine granularity and narrative complexes at high granularity. Some people explicitly refer to stories as the most efficient compression mechanisms there is, by a large margin. There is a reason the Hutter prize is what it is. Which, in a supreme irony for the positivist types, rationally entails that folk tales and the Bible (gasp) are the most valuable data there is.

Well, not necessarily, because while it may be highly compressed data shaped by a long history, we don't know if that data is actually any good. It could be the compounded misapprehensions of all the peoples that contributed to it. Just the fact that something holds a lot of highly efficiently compressed data doesn't mean it's actually good data.

You might argue that if it's old and still common today then it must have guided the people who followed it well in order to survive so long, engaging in a kind of natural selection of ideas, but the thing is that ideas can also fall prey to suboptimal equilibria and all sorts of other evolutionary weirdness and badness. Like, the success of an idea is not directly related to how good the idea actually is for the people that follow it. As long as it isn't bad enough to kill off all its followers, an idea can spread by many other means. Maybe it's better at spreading, through appealing to our baser natures or cognitive biases, maybe it's good at locking itself in through thought stopping cliches and fear of reprisal and stuff like Pascal's Wager/Roko's Basilisk. Or maybe it's really good at setting up interlocking peer pressure and network effects and social enforcement of continuing to believe it. Or maybe it's better at suppressing other ideas. Or maybe it's better at creating a group geared toward conquest or evangelism, but actually living under it sucks otherwise. Maybe it's just really beneficial to a small group of people in power and so they work really hard to spread it. Not to mention, it only had to compete against the actual ideas that existed contemporary with ut in history and were strong enough to create evolutionary pressure, so if a new idea comes along about how to organize society or whatever, we don't actually know if it will automatically win out just because it won out against other different ideas in the past. What would we think an idea is unimprovable or optimal just because it is old? The long term existence and popularity of an idea or tradition doesn't necessarily make it good at all. Would you say that the Bible's injunctions against e.g. divorce or homosexuality or women being able to teach and hold positions of authority are encoded wisdom? The most valuable data there is?

I'm by no means an actual positivist, which is an incoherent position, but I am a pragmatist, and I think the only way to actually figure out if a tradition is worth anything is to look at its reasoning, its assumptions, its history, and its effects in the world.

Re: Mechanical Turk workers are using AI to automate being human

#42
"I speak of none but the computer that is to come after me,” intoned Deep Thought, his voice regaining its accustomed declamatory tones. “A computer whose merest operational parameters I am not worthy to calculate—and yet I will design it for you. A computer that can calculate the Question to the Ultimate Answer, a computer of such infinite and subtle complexity that organic life itself shall form part of its operational matrix. And you yourselves shall take on new forms and go down into the computer to navigate its ten-million-year program.

-- h2g2

Re: Mechanical Turk workers are using AI to automate being human

#43

Nice how they help Amazon automate them away. I believe Amazon is looking very closely on what is happening.

As much as people want to ignore bezos and Amazon, they are far more evil thAn both fb and goog. Amzn is literally bad for everything on the planet aside from commerce - they are the seed of the Ferenghi

Not sure if they are the seed of the Ferenghi, but as someone who sells self published books on Amazon, they are a very nasty company to deal with.

Re: Mechanical Turk workers are using AI to automate being human

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We will know AGI is starting to exist when driverless cars are everywhere.

A "general" intelligence is one that can do tasks it wasn't explicitly trained to do. The first self driving cars (that already exist) are powered by an AI that can only drive cars, so it's not general. Also if self driving cars are everywhere then we won't have AGI, because real AGI largely does away with the need for cars.

Curious why you think humans wont want to travel if AGI exists? (Because all humans are dead by then?)

Re: Mechanical Turk workers are using AI to automate being human

#46
post #35
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the word for maps? City map makers didn't want people to copy their hard work, so they'd add a short street or some other feature that doesn't actually exist in reality.

> Mapmakers deliberately put slight mistakes in their maps so they can tell when someone copies them. If another map has the same mistake, that's very convincing evidence. http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html

[deleted]

Re: Mechanical Turk workers are using AI to automate being human

#47

Well, there is a very simple solution to that problem: Pay people extra money for the privilege of having them fulfill the tasks the way you want them to.

Which would mean working in a controlled environment or installing invasive software in their computers (something that would block chatgpt for example)

Alternatively you can establish a trust relationship.

Re: Mechanical Turk workers are using AI to automate being human

#48
post #32
post #31

It could be detected like so: 1. Give a sample of mechanical turk workers the same data to classify without telling them 2. Once submitted, look carefully at the ones they get wrong 3. If the turk worker gets similar ones wrong to other turk workers, they're probably not cheating 4. If the turk worker is frequently wrong on questions other turk workers all got right (e.g. if 99.9% of other workers got it right) then…

What's the word for maps? City map makers didn't want people to copy their hard work, so they'd add a short street or some other feature that doesn't actually exist in reality.

"paper towns" ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictitious_entry#Maps

Re: Mechanical Turk workers are using AI to automate being human

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a feeling that some types of data will become a bit like "the DNA wealth of the rainforest", valuable because it's so rich, different and rare. In particular small and/or dying human languages. Languages carry with them an immense amount of information, from all the precious human experiences that have shaped them.

Languages at fine granularity and narrative complexes at high granularity. Some people explicitly refer to stories as the most efficient compression mechanisms there is, by a large margin. There is a reason the Hutter prize is what it is. Which, in a supreme irony for the positivist types, rationally entails that folk tales and the Bible (gasp) are the most valuable data there is.

Compression isn't the right way to think about it, I think. To compress, we first have to decide what's meaningful.

The reason languages are so precious, is that it's deeply imprinted in them much of what their speakers considered valuable. That can give us a new perspective on and deeper understanding of the things we find valuable.

Re: Mechanical Turk workers are using AI to automate being human

#50
post #35
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the word for maps? City map makers didn't want people to copy their hard work, so they'd add a short street or some other feature that doesn't actually exist in reality.

> Mapmakers deliberately put slight mistakes in their maps so they can tell when someone copies them. If another map has the same mistake, that's very convincing evidence. http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html

> What scares me is that there are moral fashions too. They're just as arbitrary, and just as invisible to most people. But they're much more dangerous. Fashion is mistaken for good design; moral fashion is mistaken for good.

What dog whistling drivel. That dude's trying so hard to use fancy words and walls of texts to defend his racist views without stating them outright. This is coming from a person who previously said:

"One quality that's a really bad indication is a CEO with a strong foreign accent. They must be clueless if they haven't gotten rid of their strong accent."

Already going mask off in public and later doubling down on it in his blog. Just imagine what his views are in private if he goes to those lengths to try and fail to morally justify them.

Post reply on HN