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That Time I Posted Myself Out Of a Job

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Re: That Time I Posted Myself Out Of a Job

#481

Post by neoromantique »

gdy wrote: post #479
neoromantique wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusich_Group#cite_note-:2-1 I wanted to verify sources a bit further myself, but alas: https://i.imgur.com/YxG58lR.png To be fair, it is silly to even separate them as they're all fighting hand in hand with regular Russian army with Russian army supplies, so for all intents and purposes they were both part of it. But seeing as the person I was responding to is touting about "powerful Rus…

Milchakov was seen on a Wagner photo in Syria and "allegedly since the summer of 2017 a group of 6 people from Rusich fought in Wagner" ("С осени 2017 года у Вагнера в строю якобы целая группа из «Русича» – шесть человек.") [0] So much for Rusich being a part of Wagner. The same source says Wagner killed 5 fighters from Rusich guarding one of Donbass warlords. "so for all intents and purposes they were both part of i…

As I said, I took it off wiki and I did not verify sources further due to lack of interest in this angle (Wagner is equally despicable in my view).

Russia and Russian Military have a long and proven track record of lying without any shame or remorse, so I don't really care what the "official" standing of these units is. They are fed by Russia, armed by Russia and controlled by Russia, everything else is "Пыль в глаза".

Without downplaying the troubling beginnings of Azov (who aren't the worst offenders by a mile if you look at 2014-2015, to be honest) -- it has little bearing in 2023.

Ukrainian army went a long way cleaning up their ranks and becoming a professional army since then, they had trials and punished their own soldiers for committing crimes in ATO, which Russian side not only did not do, but encouraged.

The World is holding Ukraine to an impossible standard right now, magnifying every individual case and person to paint the whole country in bad light while turning the blind eye to one to Russian atrocities (See HRW about Cluster munitions for Ukraine vs silence on Russia using all sorts of forbidden weaponry).

Re: That Time I Posted Myself Out Of a Job

#482

Post by pandaman »

gdy wrote: post #478
pandaman wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the answer? It doesn't play audio for me.

Essentially lack of denial. Weird mix of 'Utkin was undercover among Nazis' and 'to fight Nazism one needs to try it himself'. By the way, Bellingcat claims that Utkin has a minor position in Wagner.

I'd imagine if they recorded an audio answer they were not being serious, so makes sense you found it weird. Bellingcat claims a lot of things with no evidence, it's not a serious source IMO.

Re: That Time I Posted Myself Out Of a Job

#483

Post by gdy »

pandaman wrote: post #482
gdy wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Essentially lack of denial. Weird mix of 'Utkin was undercover among Nazis' and 'to fight Nazism one needs to try it himself'. By the way, Bellingcat claims that Utkin has a minor position in Wagner.

I'd imagine if they recorded an audio answer they were not being serious, so makes sense you found it weird. Bellingcat claims a lot of things with no evidence, it's not a serious source IMO.

Almost all Prigoshin's statements are audio and video messages.

Re: That Time I Posted Myself Out Of a Job

#484

Post by pandaman »

gdy wrote: post #483
pandaman wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd imagine if they recorded an audio answer they were not being serious, so makes sense you found it weird. Bellingcat claims a lot of things with no evidence, it's not a serious source IMO.

Almost all Prigoshin's statements are audio and video messages.

Yes, I don't think he was being serious in almost all his videos I've seen. Does not he ask Zelensky to kiss Joe Biden for him in some?

Re: That Time I Posted Myself Out Of a Job

#485

Post by gdy »

neoromantique wrote: post #481
gdy wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Milchakov was seen on a Wagner photo in Syria and "allegedly since the summer of 2017 a group of 6 people from Rusich fought in Wagner" ("С осени 2017 года у Вагнера в строю якобы целая группа из «Русича» – шесть человек.") [0] So much for Rusich being a part of Wagner. The same source says Wagner killed 5 fighters from Rusich guarding one of Donbass warlords. "so for all intents and purposes they were both part of i…

As I said, I took it off wiki and I did not verify sources further due to lack of interest in this angle (Wagner is equally despicable in my view). Russia and Russian Military have a long and proven track record of lying without any shame or remorse, so I don't really care what the "official" standing of these units is. They are fed by Russia, armed by Russia and controlled by Russia, everything else is "Пыль в глаза…

"they had trials and punished their own soldiers for committing crimes in ATO"

Zelensky let them all out when the war started[0], including the infamous Tornado battalion[1][2].

"have a long and proven track record of lying without any shame or remorse"

Just like the Ukraine or the US.

"which Russian side ... encouraged"

Another fine example of 'atrocity propaganda'[3] to mobilize public support in Western countries for the Ukrainian war.

"vs silence on Russia using all sorts of forbidden weaponry"

So why is the silence? That happens when things get investigated and no proof is found. I remember Ukrainian general claiming in 2014 that Russia used a tactical nuke in Donbass.

[0] https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10559879/Zelensky-r...

[1] https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-tornado-battalion-rogue-para...

[2] https://focus-ua.translate.goog/uk/amp/ukraine/521825-osuzhd...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocity_propaganda

Re: That Time I Posted Myself Out Of a Job

#486

Post by _kbh_ »

gdy wrote: post #485
neoromantique wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I said, I took it off wiki and I did not verify sources further due to lack of interest in this angle (Wagner is equally despicable in my view). Russia and Russian Military have a long and proven track record of lying without any shame or remorse, so I don't really care what the "official" standing of these units is. They are fed by Russia, armed by Russia and controlled by Russia, everything else is "Пыль в глаза…

"they had trials and punished their own soldiers for committing crimes in ATO" Zelensky let them all out when the war started[0], including the infamous Tornado battalion[1][2]. "have a long and proven track record of lying without any shame or remorse" Just like the Ukraine or the US. "which Russian side ... encouraged" Another fine example of 'atrocity propaganda'[3] to mobilize public support in Western countries…

Why do you care about AZOV you're more than happy for the Russians to give a billion dollars to a guy with literal SS lightning bolts tattooed on him.

Seems like you're more then happy about Russian nazis but looking to very much focus on the other side.

> Another fine example of 'atrocity propaganda'[3] to mobilize public support in Western countries for the Ukrainian war.

There doesn't need to be propaganda when you are up against the monsters that rolled through Grozny and Aleppo.

The Russians are every bit the monsters that most people think they are.

> Just like the Ukraine or the US.

But the Russians lie a lot more. They have pretty much not stopped lying since this "we are not going to invade" war started and even just before it.

Re: That Time I Posted Myself Out Of a Job

#487

Post by neoromantique »

gdy wrote: post #485
neoromantique wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I said, I took it off wiki and I did not verify sources further due to lack of interest in this angle (Wagner is equally despicable in my view). Russia and Russian Military have a long and proven track record of lying without any shame or remorse, so I don't really care what the "official" standing of these units is. They are fed by Russia, armed by Russia and controlled by Russia, everything else is "Пыль в глаза…

"they had trials and punished their own soldiers for committing crimes in ATO" Zelensky let them all out when the war started[0], including the infamous Tornado battalion[1][2]. "have a long and proven track record of lying without any shame or remorse" Just like the Ukraine or the US. "which Russian side ... encouraged" Another fine example of 'atrocity propaganda'[3] to mobilize public support in Western countries…

Zelensky let them out after many years in prison when faced with full scale war, I do like how you are silent on Russia recruiting violent offenders in prisons to go to Ukraine though. And no, it was not just Wagner doing so, and even Wagner was doing it with explicit approval from Russian government.

The audacity to compare Ukraine, which has incredible level of transparency during this invasion in every aspect, welcoming auditors and investigators from all over the world to Russia is very telling of your biases.

I am Russian, I am well aware of nuances, but to even begin to compare the two is insanity in 2023.

Re: That Time I Posted Myself Out Of a Job

#488

Post by gdy »

_kbh_ wrote: post #486
gdy wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"they had trials and punished their own soldiers for committing crimes in ATO" Zelensky let them all out when the war started[0], including the infamous Tornado battalion[1][2]. "have a long and proven track record of lying without any shame or remorse" Just like the Ukraine or the US. "which Russian side ... encouraged" Another fine example of 'atrocity propaganda'[3] to mobilize public support in Western countries…

Why do you care about AZOV you're more than happy for the Russians to give a billion dollars to a guy with literal SS lightning bolts tattooed on him. Seems like you're more then happy about Russian nazis but looking to very much focus on the other side. > Another fine example of 'atrocity propaganda'[3] to mobilize public support in Western countries for the Ukrainian war. There doesn't need to be propaganda when yo…

You are still my favorite clown, don't worry. No need to stalk my comments.

Re: That Time I Posted Myself Out Of a Job

#489

Post by gdy »

neoromantique wrote: post #487
gdy wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"they had trials and punished their own soldiers for committing crimes in ATO" Zelensky let them all out when the war started[0], including the infamous Tornado battalion[1][2]. "have a long and proven track record of lying without any shame or remorse" Just like the Ukraine or the US. "which Russian side ... encouraged" Another fine example of 'atrocity propaganda'[3] to mobilize public support in Western countries…

Zelensky let them out after many years in prison when faced with full scale war, I do like how you are silent on Russia recruiting violent offenders in prisons to go to Ukraine though. And no, it was not just Wagner doing so, and even Wagner was doing it with explicit approval from Russian government. The audacity to compare Ukraine, which has incredible level of transparency during this invasion in every aspect, wel…

I'd suggest you too read the links in my original comment here.

Re: That Time I Posted Myself Out Of a Job

#490

Post by hnfong »

grimgoldgo wrote: post #116
yuliyp wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. There's a difference between saying "I would like to avoid you because your industry costs lives" and "I'd shake your hand, but, y'know, the blood never washes off". They're both basically statements about the same thing, except one is an attack while the other is merely expressing disapproval.

It's rude, sure, but I still fail to see how that rises to the level of attack ? What harm is intended or possible from a comment like that? Are all rude comments attacks?

Intentionally saying something rude when there are better way to convey the same meaning is a kind of personal attack.
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