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Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

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Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#161

Post by rightbyte »

shard wrote: post #115
throwawaylinux wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such a weird concept, I could never understand it. Why not spend effort making their local neighborhoods and schools better? Everybody grew up with richer and "better" schools and areas, I would have hated being sent out to those.

Likely a matter of the parents in richer neighborhoods being able to donate more time and money to the local school than in poorer neighborhoods. The buildings are better, there are more resources available to teachers, more extra-curricular activities, skilled teachers fight to be posted there. Certainly things can be improved at schools in poorer neighborhoods, but I doubt it could be equalized to the point where k…

"Good school" is like 99% pupil safety and the general disciplin related and 1% other. Money won't buy you that.

Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#162

Post by quailfarmer »

uoaei wrote: post #131
j_walter wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...or over promise them on what a union can deliver...no laws state that the union can't lie or misrepresent what they will get them in negotiations.

Something tells me Stanford grad students are smart enough to see through cheap ploys like the one you suggest. If that's not the case, maybe Stanford doesn't deserve the clout it enjoys.

This issue aside, they are not, and it does not. :)

Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#163

Post by quailfarmer »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #36

You gotta mistreat people pretty bad to get 94% yes vote.

Partly mistreatment perhaps, but moreover gross incompetence by the administration. For years they’ve been unwilling or unable to fix the most basic issue: Mail delivery, sensible health insurance options, pay that tracks the cost of liming in university-owned housing.

They demonstrated that they weren’t able to make things work, so there was no choice but to escalate to a union. I won’t be surprised if heads roll in upper admin once the Board of Trustees realizes that there’s no going back from this vote. I’m sure the union will be a bureaucratic headache for everyone, it’s unfortunate it was necessary.

Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#164

Post by dayvid »

dayvid wrote: post #65
CraigRo wrote: post #18

It was a disaster at Wisconsin. Union favored the 8th year humanities students at the expense of the 1 and 2 year STEM students, and traded cash for benefits that really only affected people with families. Stipends were the lowest in the country among major research universities, and the union refused to let wages rise for in-demand TAs, so a bunch of them went off and got private sector jobs instead, limiting the si…

I volunteer taught at a high school for a few months in Milwaukee when Scott Walker was in power. A lot of poor kids were bused to this school in a nicer neighborhood and couldn't do sports or extracurriculars because Walker cut funding for extra school buses to come later.

The main point is a lot of kids had single parent moms and were basically unsupervised after school. Having extracurricular’s or sports would hopefully give them more structure and discipline and something productive to do along with building healthy social skills rather than just veg out at home at best or go out in the streets at worst.

Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#165

Post by rightbyte »

ars wrote: post #154
uoaei wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you familiar with the concept of democracy? This may seem like a tongue-in-cheek response, but I believe addressing this question in good faith will lead you to the answers you seek.

You didn't answer the question: Did the people who voted "no" also win the vote? And are they not part of the union?

Ye. The title makes no sense.

Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#167

Post by light_hue_1 »

ETH_start wrote: post #159
light_hue_1 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe, the fact that the overwhelming number of smart people working on making new ideas, new medications, making society better, are left wing is a really good indication that this is a much better approach? It's amazing to me that it never occurs to people on the right that when the smartest people around all pretty much agree on reality they aren't actually wrong. The right treats science just like antivaxers t…

>> Or maybe, the fact that the overwhelming number of smart people working on making new ideas, new medications, making society better, are left wing is a really good indication that this is a much better approach? Business owners are doing all of those things, and more than half of them are right wing. [1] The average Republican has a higher income than the average Democrat, and this is despite staunchly pro-Democra…

Business owners do not create new medications. Academics do. Business owners manage them.

I don't understand. Is this some variant of a conspiracy theory? All academics are working together to groupthink their way to the left?

Or maybe. Seriously. The smart people in the room. Who dedicate their lives to improving the world. All pretty much, no matter what subject they study, come to the conclusion that the left is the correct choice while the right is destructive (see the fact that we've set best records this week).

Stop looking for conspiracies. Most faculty members are not unionized. And this varies a lot by country. Yet, in the US where we aren't unionized (in most states), in Canada where some are unionized, in the UK where are all unionized, in Italy where I think they aren't, etc. Everyone agrees with this basic fact.

Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#168

Post by autoexec »

rightbyte wrote: post #161
shard wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likely a matter of the parents in richer neighborhoods being able to donate more time and money to the local school than in poorer neighborhoods. The buildings are better, there are more resources available to teachers, more extra-curricular activities, skilled teachers fight to be posted there. Certainly things can be improved at schools in poorer neighborhoods, but I doubt it could be equalized to the point where k…

"Good school" is like 99% pupil safety and the general disciplin related and 1% other. Money won't buy you that.

> "Good school" is like 99% pupil safety and the general disciplin related and 1% other. Money won't buy you that.

I think money could help that. Even if it never left the schools. Assuming that it went to things like removing lead, made the schools look less run down, supported after school programs, and added security (not police).

Since the suggestion was "making their local neighborhoods and schools better" there might be a lot that could be done in local neighborhoods to improve student safety too. Fixing environmental issues there, cleaning the place up and planting trees, improving access to good stores, improving public transportation, and providing daycare. That could lower crime rates, improve the health of the kids and parents, and give parents more time to spend with their kids or get involved with the school.

Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#169

Post by autoexec »

labcomputer wrote: post #156
maybelsyrup wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a few cosmetic things Show me someone who thinks a living wage and a boss who can’t overwork you anymore are cosmetic and I’ll show you a university administrator.

TAs aren't overworked, even without union representation. You'll never be asked to do more than an average of 20hrs/week, ever. You can always just refuse to sign the end-of-semester certification. RAs are overworked, but unions can't do anything to help that. As a grad student, you need to publish papers, which means you need the cooperation of your advisor. If you bring a grievance or work to rule, there are a mill…

> If you bring a grievance or work to rule, there are a million innovative ways your advisor can sabotage you as retaliation.

That sounds like exactly the kind of thing a union could address.

> I wasn't represented by a union in grad school, but all the commenters here who were have pointed out that their unions didn't fight for higher wages.

It's possible that they were fighting for other things considered by most members to be more important. Ultimately though, if a group has a union and they feel that the union isn't representing their interests there are remedies for that. Members can vote to change leadership, or in extreme circumstances dissolve the union and form a new one designed to prevent the problems you had with the old one.

Re: Stanford Graduate Students Won Their Union Vote

#170

Post by autoexec »

LatteLazy wrote: post #160
CraigRo wrote: post #18

It was a disaster at Wisconsin. Union favored the 8th year humanities students at the expense of the 1 and 2 year STEM students, and traded cash for benefits that really only affected people with families. Stipends were the lowest in the country among major research universities, and the union refused to let wages rise for in-demand TAs, so a bunch of them went off and got private sector jobs instead, limiting the si…

Forming a union is one thing. Actually agreeing what to demand and getting it is another. That seems to be where these things break down. I watched the Amazon union go from popular and "more money, less crazy metrics, more toilet breaks" to "end racism in Amercia" and then no one wanted to risk their jobs to ask for the impossible...

If you mean in AL there was a lot wrong there including massive union busting efforts and a lack of worker education on what unions are, but people who want a union really should choose their union leadership carefully and be ready to replace them if they feel they aren't being represented.
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