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OpenWorm – A computational model of C. elegans worm

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Re: OpenWorm – A computational model of C. elegans worm

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replicating something exactly is a lot harder than making something that does the same thing in a different way. We can build planes that travel far faster than a bird could but that doesn’t mean it’s easy for us to exactly replicate how a bird flies, so I don’t think this says anything about how far away we are from a superintelligence

This. Submarines don't swim like fish, airplanes don't fly like birds and cars don't run like gepards. Edit: I am surprised at the downvotes. In general, we learn from the nature, but aping it usually proved too difficult and often unpractical at the same time. Do we really want to replicate worm intelligence for practical purposes, or do we want something different? I would say that a machine which can, say, analyze…

Yeah, but we understand why birds can fly and why fish can swim and how gepards can run, at least on a mechanical basis.

This is not true for how this 302 cell organism works. We don't know and struggle to understand. That's actually the reason why the project exists. To find out how everything works with an bottom-up approach.

While we may find shortcuts or even superior forms of intelligence without understanding how intelligence works in biological creatures, it is still curious how we struggle even with a "simple" organism like C.elegans.

Re: OpenWorm – A computational model of C. elegans worm

#22

302 neurons doesn’t sound impressive to people who may be used to working with 7B+ parameter neural networks. But those neural networks have about as much in common with a biological neuron as a bicycle had with a horse. They can both travel pretty fast but one evolved naturally through over a billion years of harsh natural selection, and the other is a precisely tuned metal machine with a single purpose. Neurons are…

> billions of DNA base pairs controlling their behavior

Total genome size of C elegans is 100M.

Re: OpenWorm – A computational model of C. elegans worm

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the goal. > Our main goal is to build the world's first virtual organism - an in-silico implementation of a living creature - for the purpose of achieving an understanding of the events and mechanisms of living cells. This blog post is interesting: "Whole Brain Emulation: No Progress on C. elegans After 10 Years" https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/mHqQxwKuzZS69CXX5/whole-brai... As other mentioned in the comment…

Replicating something exactly is a lot harder than making something that does the same thing in a different way. We can build planes that travel far faster than a bird could but that doesn’t mean it’s easy for us to exactly replicate how a bird flies, so I don’t think this says anything about how far away we are from a superintelligence

It's not only about exact simulation. And we actually do understand how birds can fly on a mechanical basis. This is not true for C.elegans' inner workings.

Re: OpenWorm – A computational model of C. elegans worm

#24
post #3
post #2

So is this an exact digital replica of a worm?

How can we exactly replicate something if we don't even know all the laws of physics?

This is a fundamentally flawed way of questionning, "knowing all the laws of physics" is probably impossible to achieve, but we still produce accurate predictions for a lot of phenomena. You can see that we do in fact "replicate" (predict would be a more proper term) things despite not knowing all the laws of physics: weather, movement of the stars, cooking time for a browned piece of bread...

Re: OpenWorm – A computational model of C. elegans worm

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the goal. > Our main goal is to build the world's first virtual organism - an in-silico implementation of a living creature - for the purpose of achieving an understanding of the events and mechanisms of living cells. This blog post is interesting: "Whole Brain Emulation: No Progress on C. elegans After 10 Years" https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/mHqQxwKuzZS69CXX5/whole-brai... As other mentioned in the comment…

In defense of the project: they’ve been working a lot over the last 10 years. They recently published what they call a “liquid neural network” where they’ve isolated the neuron structure doing the work. It outperforms CNNs for some niche tasks, and it uses a fraction of the resources.

Just to make this clear, I think this project is actually one of the few sane engineering approaches for starting to understand how our brain works. Sure, claims of simulating a cat brain or even a human brain in some manner are much more catchy, but it seems to be pretty arrogant if we struggle even with C.elegans.

Re: OpenWorm – A computational model of C. elegans worm

#27

302 neurons doesn’t sound impressive to people who may be used to working with 7B+ parameter neural networks. But those neural networks have about as much in common with a biological neuron as a bicycle had with a horse. They can both travel pretty fast but one evolved naturally through over a billion years of harsh natural selection, and the other is a precisely tuned metal machine with a single purpose. Neurons are…

In addition to that, these neurons are also quite different from the ones in mammals,

"The neurons do not fire action potentials, and do not express any voltage-gated sodium channels." [1]

That makes the fact that it can develop a nicotine addiction even more fascinating.

"Nicotine dependence can also be studied using C. elegans because it exhibits behavioral responses to nicotine that parallel those of mammals. These responses include acute response, tolerance, withdrawal, and sensitization." [1]

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caenorhabditis_elegans

Re: OpenWorm – A computational model of C. elegans worm

#28
post #22

302 neurons doesn’t sound impressive to people who may be used to working with 7B+ parameter neural networks. But those neural networks have about as much in common with a biological neuron as a bicycle had with a horse. They can both travel pretty fast but one evolved naturally through over a billion years of harsh natural selection, and the other is a precisely tuned metal machine with a single purpose. Neurons are…

> billions of DNA base pairs controlling their behavior Total genome size of C elegans is 100M.

Biologists should totally breed a subspecies of C elegans best suited for research purpose, call it C relevans.
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